Ready to unravel the knotty issue of resentment lurking in your relationship? Today, we're stripping down and tackling this common, yet often unspoken, issue that silently strains and stresses many parenting partner relationships.
In our candid conversation, we shed light on how resentment can spring from significant life decisions and disagreements such as having children or choosing a school. We reveal how such resentment can stem from feeling unheard or when one partner’s desires are not fulfilled. Furthermore, we delve into the reality of how this bitter emotion can manifest and create a rift between couples, affecting your happiness and peace. So, whether you're dealing with resentment or you're trying to barricade it from encroaching on your relationship, tune in as Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP help you resolve resentment in your partner relationship.
Ready to unravel the knotty issue of resentment lurking in your relationship? Today, we're stripping down and tackling this common, yet often unspoken, issue that silently strains and stresses many parenting partner relationships.
In our candid conversation, we shed light on how resentment can spring from significant life decisions and disagreements such as having children or choosing a school. We reveal how such resentment can stem from feeling unheard or when one partner’s desires are not fulfilled. Furthermore, we delve into the reality of how this bitter emotion can manifest and create a rift between couples, affecting your happiness and peace. So, whether you're dealing with resentment or you're trying to barricade it from encroaching on your relationship, tune in as Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP help you resolve resentment in your partner relationship.
Hello and welcome, mrs. Couples Counseling for Parents A show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Hiya parents, our dad, dr Steven Mitchell, and our mom, erin Mitchell. Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Steven Mitchell.
Speaker 2:I'm Erin Mitchell.
Speaker 1:And just a moment of self-disclosure.
Speaker 2:Oh no.
Speaker 1:We were about to start this show and Erin said a very true statement. Today has been an exercise in futility, and you know what it really has. We are coming in here feeling like we've failed the entire day.
Speaker 2:Not the entire day, it feels like several hours oh my goodness, we came in with all these intentions.
Speaker 1:We're going to get a lot of like good, solid work done, lots of technical difficulties that still were not figured out, and just like starting and not getting anywhere, and so Everybody's favorite right I just really want to let you know this is going to be a great show.
Speaker 2:You're in for something really wonderful because we're a little bit raw and we're too vulnerable to be masked.
Speaker 1:To be masked. So, on that note, let's jump into the show about resentment, because that's what we're talking about today.
Speaker 2:So it's something that comes up. It's a reason that we end up talking with a lot of couples. I think it's.
Speaker 1:Could you say it's like one. It is the reason we end up talking with couples, because they feel massive amounts of resentment that they just don't know what to do about.
Speaker 2:No, I think that is.
Speaker 1:No consideration, just no, absolutely not.
Speaker 2:You asked a yes or no question. I answered, I guess. So I think resentment is a large reason people.
Speaker 1:Percentage Like 88. Oh my gosh, I mean if we were going to say percentage wise.
Speaker 2:But what can me and the rest of us listening expect? Is this going to persist, or can we hope to move on?
Speaker 1:I think you can expect that this will persist, but I'll try to limit it.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. I can't ask for more than that. I think resentment is a common thing that comes up in parenting partners. Why? I think because resentment, I think Tell me what you think Is underlying hurt. And I think because parenting stacks up.
Speaker 1:If we had Well, hurt stacks up Like.
Speaker 2:Yes, but also parenting requires we keep moving, so I think it's really hard.
Speaker 1:With like no time to resolve or address, there's a proper amount of time to sit with and really feel, felt in the way we need for resentment to actually be resolved. Yeah, I was just talking to somebody today about this. And it was like the stack up, I mean over like lots of years, without the time to be able to go back. That's true, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I think the other thing. I think it's very common, so I think I just so. Yes, I think I mean you were trying to say is this why everybody comes to us? No, I don't think it is why everybody comes to us Like 89% of the time maybe. I did that to all of us. I apologize, that's on me.
Speaker 1:Okay, 93%.
Speaker 2:But I do think that most couples have an element of it, even if it's not very intense. Yeah, resentment doesn't have, there's a flavor.
Speaker 1:Maybe it doesn't have to be like something really ugly or angry even, and I think you know there's levels Like there's some people that we see that come in they are, they're really really hurt or really angry. Yeah, there's other folks who are like you know what? I can kind of feel a building I don't want it to like. How do we do about it?
Speaker 2:So you, know, I think, or just like I don't want this, and that's the thing. No one likes it, it doesn't feel good.
Speaker 1:No one loves to feel resentment.
Speaker 2:No and no one loves to feel like their partner is holding resentment that it's like oh neat. Yes, let's set aside a time to talk about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:Both ways, like I don't. I don't really want that. I think something that most couples we do talk with express some version of. I think we've expressed this is like I just want to enjoy the time we do get when it is just the two of us, or even with our kids, like I want. I want us to enjoy each other. And this feels like a barrier to it.
Speaker 1:And so I think one of the reasons and we've used this before, I think, or mentioned this before I think some of the reasons people don't want to talk about resentment is because it ends up getting them stuck in dead-end dialogues where they're having the same, where they're basically just rehashing why they're frustrated or disappointed with one another and there's no resolution. And so the idea of like, hey, let's talk about resentment doesn't really imbue in anyone. Like let's do that. It's like let's have an exercise and frustration and futility again and again, like we had today. I'm resentful towards the universe, though not towards you.
Speaker 1:Right now, Right now yeah, about your day.
Speaker 2:The universe is who was against me today, or technology specifically.
Speaker 1:And I resent them very heavily. So I think, but how are we going to resolve that with the universe? Because the universe ain't going to talk to me about this. I'm just going to have to deal with it. Ok, you're just moving on.
Speaker 2:I am going to move on again.
Speaker 1:I feel so dismissed sometimes. Well, these are really important questions I'm asking. I don't want you to feel dismissed Also.
Speaker 2:I dismissed that and your existence crisis.
Speaker 1:I think you're probably right Currently.
Speaker 2:I think you should just stay on top of it and we can discuss that later.
Speaker 1:We should move on OK.
Speaker 2:So I think we I posed the question on our Instagram community about why is this so hard for you, or what questions or comments, and a lot of. I'm trying to answer as many as I can and I'm going to try to do that thematically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. Well, let's do it.
Speaker 2:So sort of the two themes I heard most, or felt like I heard, was when it's a major topic or a conversation piece.
Speaker 1:Like decision or just top yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, kind of both. So one of the sort of streams within that stream is major decisions. So something that comes up all of the time in our work is a couple trying to decide if they should have another baby and when the partners don't feel aligned in that decision. And it is a forever decision. It is both ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And typically well, every time when there's conflict around it, it's because they don't agree I want another baby, you don't want another baby, or to even try for that, because, again, implied in that you just get to have another baby is.
Speaker 1:That's not true. That's correct. I mean, there's pregnancy loss, there's infertility. All kinds of things that.
Speaker 2:But even the conversation about like. I would like to try that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that matters. And I think while couples are engaged in that disagreement, there can feel like a lot of distance, a lot of unknowing, a lot of misunderstanding.
Speaker 1:I can ask a question. So the resentment about a topic like that might be if we don't have another kid, I'm going to resent you because that's something I wanted. Or if we do have another kid, I'm going to resent you because that's not something I wanted, because I've even heard this played out a little bit further with couples. So let's say, the partner that didn't want to have a kid, let's just say, it's you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's say me. So Aaron wants to have a kid, I say no, I don't, but we go ahead and have a kid anyway. And then maybe there's difficulty, maybe you feel overwhelmed, or maybe you have a tough time with pregnancy or birth or postpartum, or maybe even there's just some challenges with the kid alone, like behavioral or health or whatever it might be or fast forward five years, and we didn't have any of that.
Speaker 2:But now we have financial stress. Right, right, and then I love our kid, but I told you yes, yes.
Speaker 1:You know, I told you, or even more acutely, I think, sometimes, if you are having a hard time, there's this feeling of like yeah, that's on you. This is why. This is why and I knew so this is how these things can get played out.
Speaker 2:And then the opposite is like I'm not, I can't share my difficulty or my struggle, because you didn't want this anyway. So, now I'm not allowed to have a hard time. Well, I am, and I resent you that you aren't open to me talking about that with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or even if you, then if you don't have a kid, then you could resent me, because you see other families and you see them having experiences and kind of a life together and you're like, oh, that's what I wanted and I don't get to have that. Or maybe there's a particular, maybe you wanted a boy or maybe you wanted a girl, and you're like we don't have that and I don't have that because of you not being willing to try those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:Sure, yes, we have heard some version of each of those. Yes, several times. Yes, times 100.
Speaker 1:Times 1,000.
Speaker 2:So that is one example of sort of a topical thing, but I think moving job choices like major life.
Speaker 1:School decisions yes. How are we going to do school with our kids? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, those are some of the themes that came up and obviously those are all very different choices, but when we're talking about their impact on the relationship, it's pretty similar, the like. We have to make this decision and if it's a yes or a no, one of us is going to be upset.
Speaker 1:Someone's going to feel like they're losing and one's going to feel like they're winning, and then there's going to be like there's it, man, they're over that.
Speaker 2:Is either their perception.
Speaker 1:Because we really believe, or the fear.
Speaker 2:Yes, because we do believe you can make these massive decisions and not end up with resentment. We help couples do this all of the time.
Speaker 1:We have had to do this ourselves.
Speaker 2:But then there's also things like that's not so much decision and more like a topic, because you said like wait, like a big decision, and I said yeah, those are topics like family dynamics, because there's no real well. Sometimes there is a decision that needs to be made.
Speaker 1:There's something Family's tough Incorporating. I mean that's. Would you say that 100% of the couples we talked to deal with that?
Speaker 2:He did promise not to let it go and he delivered.
Speaker 1:Above 70%.
Speaker 2:Dismissing. I need to. I keep saying that we need buttons, and this should be another moment.
Speaker 1:It's just the mute button, but I shouldn't joke about dismissing that actually is very painful. Steven's mute button. Yeah, but the thing about family is really tough and there's tons of resentment that comes with that.
Speaker 2:Yes, there certainly can be, and also a very important conversation, although honestly that is a very different conversation than some of these major decision ones. Yeah, yeah yeah, and then here's the other topic that I think we really, really, really need to hit on the other side that I think thematicly was coming up is this is really hard to talk about how do we broach some of these resentments in a way that feels like an invitation and not like-.
Speaker 1:Blame criticism, dead-end dialogue, yeah, and not prompting defensiveness immediately And-.
Speaker 1:Well, it's also really vulnerable to talk about a way that you've been hurt, so like resentment, if it's really just hurt and it's stacked up over time, it's really tough to be vulnerable to come to your partner and say, hey, can we talk about how I'm feeling hurt again, with a good chance that you might not listen or might not get it or might just get defensive again. You know, and that you know after a while, like you just don't wanna do that, you don't wanna get into it?
Speaker 1:Yes, which I think is like theory, understandable, like just very like on paper, like well, yeah, who would want to do that? But also you just miss me a lot, this podcast and I Hurt, yeah, it's hard for me to even wanna keep talking, but don't worry, I will.
Speaker 2:So, yes, I think on paper it's obvious Like that doesn't seem like a good idea, but that's not the only thing that you're talking about here. What gets invited to the table is nervous systems, right? So like I'm coming-.
Speaker 1:Say yeah, Sorry, you were about to explain it. I was gonna say say more, but you are.
Speaker 2:So I'm even in my mind, so I'm going to be engaging in this conversation. I have some resentment, some stacked up hurt that I want to talk with Stephen about. I've tried before. I know how this is gonna go. I'm nervous to bring it up, because that is what a lot of people said, like how do you bring this up? Like I would love to, because we shared a couple of things, because resentment the topic has been coming up for us. So, like a lot of times, people-.
Speaker 1:You mean in our relationship.
Speaker 2:Start with a talk to-.
Speaker 1:You haven't talked to me about it.
Speaker 2:Are you ready? Am I ready? This is me.
Speaker 1:I think that's the right question.
Speaker 2:We have some. Our nervous system comes to this conversation in a particular way. So if I'm the one who's coming, typically I'm nervous or I'm already feeling like it's not gonna work out, so maybe I'm just You're already guarded.
Speaker 1:That nervous system has already kind of been activated and it's kicking into some of those-. No, it really are not Like it, don't and that's the thing, that's the uninvited.
Speaker 2:Often the barrier is our protective strategies that just immediately come. So I think that's the first thing. The first step to having this conversation is acknowledging that. First to yourself right, like I feel nervous. And you said guarded. And I think we all get guarded in different ways. When I feel guarded, I don't really withdraw, I get, would you say, sharper or steely, or-.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you get sharper, you get a little more aggressive, like from the standpoint of like you'll say something or you'll Like you're not gonna back down. You're kind of like bracing for a fight. So so you're kind of.
Speaker 2:And I even if my aggressive though looks a little timid, because I'm not gonna lead with any of that, I'm just gonna be very reactive, right.
Speaker 1:Like. If you say something that I don't like, comments little yes, yes yes, and, and I? I will just not say anything. I'll just draw, withdraw your guarded, and maybe that's how everybody maybe kind of swallow it, just kind of keep it to myself to say like oh, to get that, you know not worth it.
Speaker 2:Let it ride. Yeah, it'll pass that kind of thing, and by it you mean the storm that can be. Aaron will pass.
Speaker 1:Well, no, not you're not.
Speaker 2:What did you mean? What? Well, just let let the tension pass or the discomfort you because you're not I mean that makes you sound like you're a villain yeah or something You're not. I can't be Well, thank you. Yeah, I don't think you're a villain. Buddy episode over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Aaron's not a villain scene.
Speaker 2:Um, but I think that's the first part that makes this conversation stay stuck. Yeah, is that my gardeness?
Speaker 1:I would draw.
Speaker 2:I think that's the first part of the conversation that I'm gonna be talking about is the more I like, poke, whatever, and to just straight up acknowledge that first. Like, okay, I'm nervous about this, and it depends where you all are in this conversation, like, if this is like for me and Steven, I could easily come and say I feel like this is something that happens. I feel a little nervous to say this, right, I might, might you know how my voice gets. I don't want it to sound really abrupt or critical, but like I'm nervous.
Speaker 2:So it might so can you be patient with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and I think some of this is contingent on we kind of talked about that continuum of resentment, right? So there's, there's some folks who are feeling resentment, but they're there's still, like Open pathways and avenues into one another.
Speaker 2:You know, I would have described like where we are right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I feel like you know, gratefully, thankfully, we we still have, you know, open, open roads to each other's Hearts and we can influence each other. And and then there's the continuum of other.
Speaker 2:I really liked that, but that was as cheesy as it gets. We have open roads to each other's hearts.
Speaker 1:My heart is open. Come down, love avenue. Um, no, so I, I think yes. In a very cheesy way. We still have it, I did, but, but then, but then that the other, like extreme of that is just Hearts that are really, really hardened, um, and there are not avenues to be able to Maybe broach the subject without Some help.
Speaker 2:Yeah the assistance of others and then there's a lot of space between those, which is it depends on the topic, it depends on the time of day, it depends on a lot of factors. But, like I think, I genuinely and sincerely believe that most couples want to be I mean, everyone we've talked to, which I do get is a certain type of person who's willing to engage yeah, people don't come to us if they're like no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, most people are fully closed. Because people, because partners want connection. Partners don't want roadblocks to one another's heart.
Speaker 2:If you're not watching, you should be, because that face was that's good, why not?
Speaker 1:That's like a quote on one of those um Cheesy motivation posters. You know, yeah, hearts don't want roadblocks.
Speaker 2:Or it's in the cardiologist office, anywho, um. I think there's a lot of space in between there, so I think there, you have to know and and we can't say for you but like, okay, this is a tough topic. I've tried to bring it up 70 times. So the question is what's missing? Like, what is the block? Is it in what you're communicating like? And and we've talked about this and we will forever. So often we say the thing that seems like the thing like.
Speaker 1:I think what we're saying like um. So sometimes when we used to get in Arguments you would use used to well, I mean in terms of this, this thing. You would maybe use some stronger language towards me. Oh, in terms of name calling, yes and um.
Speaker 2:I don't like this one Uh okay, you don't.
Speaker 1:Well, we don't have to use it.
Speaker 2:That's okay. Okay, I just don't agree with it. You. You do use it, though, so I think it's helpful.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. Well, I think all I'm saying is I think for a long time I didn't say anything about that, but then what I began to to realize is I could start picking at like well, you're about because you you name call you're a bad person.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, because you name call and I don't name call and then and we could get lost in that conversation. But the reality was I like when Aaron used those you know stronger words or whatever, it just hurt my feelings, like I just didn't like being Called names. It made me feel, okay, this is actually gonna be great.
Speaker 2:Thank you Shockingly, because here's the thing I actually don't agree with that. I think, like, did I ever like use stronger words and like call Steven a name? Probably yes, but when he talks about this, even right now, I'm like that's, that's not how it went. My tone very rarely loud. I don't get, I don't really yell. In fact it's worse, I get mean and sort of laser and my my voice gets Um.
Speaker 2:my kids I think we've said this have called it steely before like sort of the more even tone I am, the more upset I am. Yeah, but so when Steven would say, hey, I don't call you names, my reaction then and now is neither do I. But when Steven explained what he's about to, which is like call me you. Neither do I. You whatever name caller, yeah, yeah but.
Speaker 1:But yes, you would say, neither do I. But I would be like, yes, you like, yeah, you do.
Speaker 2:But then the content it hurts, the, the it hurt you. When our fights would escalate in any way, because it felt scary. Yeah, yeah and then for you to say historically, like your, you have a history of fights escalating to a very uncomfortable place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, my parents fought, okay, very in a very uncomfortable way, um, and in loud tones and like screaming and yelling at each other, and so like I think that that that energy felt really bad, bad to me, because I was like that, like why would you do that? I'm not doing that, like I, I don't like that, um, and yes, and that I understand.
Speaker 2:so I'm like, okay, so it feels like that, like so I don't have to agree that I call Steven names and I'm yelling because I don't, yeah, but I'm like, oh, but I do get that my energy gets intense and fast because I know that that is, that is true, and the perception, the feeling is like and now this is scary.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Yeah Well, I don't want that and I can see how that impacts you right, right that I can understand, and so I think what just happened there, as we rehashed this old resentment and then learned something new about it, is, I think that Always how like, so how do couples talk about resentment? It is all in how you express and how you listen, and both Both partners are responsible to do both.
Speaker 1:You're responsible to express and you're responsible to listen, and where things get confused is and Right place and and so if you first, but sorry, no, you finish and and, and I think that you know, in some ways, we, we do sound like a broken record, I think, in terms of like, well, what do you do in these different situations?
Speaker 1:Because what you are doing, when you're expressing, is you are describing Yourself, not your partner or what they did, and I think that that's the that's the one of the key places when couples get off is is like oh well, I'm telling you what you did wrong and I'm telling you why I didn't like this, and I'm telling you I feel like this because you did this and that that Automatically places a partner in a defensive place and also is a very unexamined expression of what's happening for you. What we are talking about is so what Aaron described I I needed to be able to tune into. Why do I not like that Elevated tone, or that, that elevated energy, what? Why is that difficult for me? Not, you know what, aaron. We have this problem because you have an elevated tone and you bring an energy that isn't and you need to that that's or don't call me names like why don't?
Speaker 2:so conversation over and great right, right.
Speaker 1:And so what I, what I had to think about is like oh Okay, what I feel is happening for me in these moments, I had to tune to this. I had to kind of like see what the feeling was in terms of you know why? Why do I get uneasy about this? Is you know what? Like I kind of grew up in a scenario where things were pretty scary when people were having conflict, and in a In any hint of that happening really scares me and kind of throws me off.
Speaker 1:I'm not. I'm not able to like Pay attention, I'm able to listen, I'm not able to really engage. So what I'm expressing is this is what is happening for me and I I'm hurt because I feel like it keeps happening and I don't feel like maybe I haven't been able to say it or but I don't feel like you. You understand, you understand that, and so the fact that it keeps happening Begins to really stack up and hurt my feelings and make me resentful towards you. So that's the idea of the expressing with within the listening, I Think is a real need To, first of all, also for for Aaron, I think, in that moment to recognize why does this bother her?
Speaker 1:Like, why does this conversation Generate any energy? Like oh, steven's, like saying I'm calling him names again, like, like you know, that would be you attuning to why, why you didn't like that, which would be I'm not quite sure what you would, how you would say, like what I noticed when you said that was this is Like I just felt defensive, or I felt like I was being misnamed, or I felt like you were saying I was doing something that I wasn't and I don't you know. You know that like being, you know, misrepresented.
Speaker 1:I don't know and and, so that that would be Aaron, like in the listening part of this, being able to like check in with that, but then also, undoubtedly in these scenarios, I don't think there's any way that you can get away from feeling Defensive, necessarily, like because, again, defensive doesn't.
Speaker 2:It is good, our defenses are so good right.
Speaker 1:So I'm gonna say to Aaron. I'm gonna say to Aaron hey, I've got a problem, I'm feeling upset about something and and she's gonna get defend defensive, like like that's just a natural reaction. But what we have to try to do is suspend that defensiveness and you.
Speaker 2:You and your partner are going to get defensive. Something important is being brought up that historically doesn't feel good. Or you hurt me, or I'm angry right those, those activate protective strategies, and they should noted. Now Can we try?
Speaker 2:right our best to slow this down so that we can access those if we need to, or Suspend them, because hopefully we're both Mm-hmm willing to be like well, I don't, I don't want, I don't want to get Sort of short with or laser focused with my tone and I don't want to elevate, and I know that I can and you don't want to withdraw right, right want to disengage. Right want to dismiss in this conversation. But you know that you can right. Let's try not to do that.
Speaker 2:Okay if you notice that, can you gently tell me like hey, your tone. Or if I'm like hello, I feel like you've left the building, can you?
Speaker 1:come back, yeah, yeah, and, and so by doing that, by doing these things in the expressing and the listening you can get, you can get to a different place in the conversation.
Speaker 2:A new place like an authentic place.
Speaker 1:So even think about the conversation about like, let's have another kid. So you come to your partner, so Erin comes to me because I'm the one who doesn't want to have the other kid, and she's like you know what? You're never open to have this conversation, You're just like automatically right there. That's the beginning of the dead end dialogue. But if she's able to come and say, hey, this feels so important to me and I know that we maybe don't see it eye to eye, but there's part of me that just wants you to hear me out and understand why this feels important to me, and I know that that might not change your mind, but I just feel like you're not hearing me or listening. Can we just talk through it, like that's a different, that is her expressing her experience and even expressing what she feels that she needs, and that allows that kind of activates, the opportunity for me to do listening different, vice versa, because I can also say, well, okay, great, but I'd like to express sort of like why it's hard, what's happening for me in this conversation.
Speaker 2:I think an exceptionally good way to engage these conversations about resentment is to start to lead with. I know that there's this topic. It's hot for both of us. I think we're both misunderstanding. Like I don't feel like you're hearing me and it's occurring to me, if I don't feel heard, you probably don't feel like I'm understanding either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to, I sincerely want to. I don't Because again with the baby conversation, can I?
Speaker 1:be honest with you. You said hot topic and all I can think about is that Jim Gaffkin part where he's like hot pocket. And I'm like hot topic, you got hot topic.
Speaker 2:I don't even remember saying hot topic, so sorry, I had to say it though because I couldn't continue Without it yeah.
Speaker 1:Hot topic Okay, it's like okay, okay, sorry, I just had to say it and it might even be a helpful way to lead into it. Hey, can we talk about the?
Speaker 2:hot topic. We talk about this a lot. That will because you've heard it I can't help but laugh. We are 15. Even now, 15 years married and it's still funny to me. Stephen is still funny to me, which?
Speaker 1:You feel really sad about I. You feel sad about it in this moment.
Speaker 2:I'm super glad, but I. But that works for me. Humor in a conflict. Written conversation deescalates me.
Speaker 1:It just does. It does not for you. For well, right right, you know I forget what's worked, but anyway, back to we can.
Speaker 2:I don't know what you were, what I was saying. I know I was talking about the.
Speaker 1:The way to come into the hot topics was to say like I hey, I know that this is even a hard thing for us to talk about and and like, just be real blatant, blatant and blunt and upfront about it.
Speaker 2:So not having resentment. So I think all that I was going to say is, like in the I want another baby, Stephen doesn't conversation, Someone is going to win technically, that you know sort of that, Like we either are going to try or we are not, so there's going to be a direction chosen there has to be. But and there's a difference, though, between grief and resentment.
Speaker 2:So there will be grief For someone, perhaps, but there doesn't have to be resentment, and so the what I mean is so, if we decide, if we have this conversation and I feel like you really understand, yeah, what this means to me, why it matters what the, what the losses for me will be if we don't try- yeah, the grief, what the grief will be for you and I feel like you get it and I'm like I, you feel me, you like I feel all the way understood and felt, even if not agreed with.
Speaker 2:That is a different feeling than you are shutting me down. I don't think you understand. I'm trying to tell you like why this matters and you're like well, that would be really hard.
Speaker 1:Or you know something. Well, it just can feel dismissive, but but really understanding the cost, the loss, the grief, and doing that both ways Exactly, and then saying like what?
Speaker 2:Okay. So, knowing everything, knowing where we both feel, what do we feel most comfortable with in this decision? Like what, what can we live with? Future casting 10 years from now? What will be the? You know the decision we can bear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that is very different than feeling like I.
Speaker 2:I don't.
Speaker 1:I feel like we never were able to have the conversation and that that's a different resentment you can't, you, can't, you can't like, redo that conversation. Like you know, and then you're dealing with the loss in the now, ten years later, we're talking with those couples about like how to forgive, because that is because yeah.
Speaker 2:And what that means and what like actual repair and those moments look like. So what we're talking about is Not having that happen and that is by having a different conversation now, yes, and talking about the layers and talking about what it all means Mutually yeah, yeah, yeah, and so I think that again we I was thinking in the car this week.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:The tag or it used to be. I don't know if we do anymore, but like it used to be. How they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. We still do that tag yes so, steven, like in this conversation, like what would you say how getting out of resentment works?
Speaker 1:how it works is that you're able to express and listen differently. Why it doesn't is because things stack up and you're not. You're, you're blaming, criticizing, you're not expressing things or From describing yourself and you're not listening through the defensiveness. Yes and then the how to fix. It would be To express your experience, to listen through the defensiveness in a new way in a real way, in an authentic way, in a like what are the layers?
Speaker 2:or Looking back at where this has gone wrong. Where do we continue to get stuck? Is it in the expression like do we never make it out of that state? Try it a different way.
Speaker 1:Is it?
Speaker 2:in the your response. I don't like the way you said that try it a different way, like right, like think of this Scientifically, because it is yeah, try it.
Speaker 1:If what you're doing is not working, try something else, and, and, and, and, and. I think those science right hashtag size.
Speaker 2:Just that simple.
Speaker 1:But. But the thing is, is really the, the trying, something else that we're talking about? Is you vulnerable, expressing your experience, and and then Vulnerably listening and then expressing yeah. That's it solved. You'll never be resentful again.
Speaker 2:I think that's true.
Speaker 1:You know what? I even feel a little less resentful at the universe after having this wait.
Speaker 2:I really want this to be over for all of us, but Do you not mean that? I thought you were being sarcastic. You'll never have resentment again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean well, I mean I think it's hard to not have resentment because we're not perfect people and we kind of can get sideways. But I think what it is is you will be able to resolve your resentment and it won't mean it won't stack up and it won't faster and it won't ruin the relationship. It is.
Speaker 2:I think what I'm saying intensity less often, and when it happens, it doesn't have to last so long.
Speaker 1:Yes, today's show was produced by Aaron and Steven Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on couples counseling for parents and remember working on a healthy couple relationship is Good Parenting.