Every relationship faces the siege of stress, but how we navigate through this inevitable reality makes all the difference. Imagine this case example: Josh, retreating into his shell under the pressure of life's stress, leaves Lindsay spinning plates to maintain the family's harmony. Their story may sound familiar, and we're peeling back the layers to discover why Josh's withdrawal and Lindsay's increasing load brew the perfect storm of miscommunication.
Listen along as Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP guide you through the choppy waters of coping with stress and the burden it places on our partners, you'll gain insights into the silent battles that many couples face and how to navigate them with grace and understanding.
Every relationship faces the siege of stress, but how we navigate through this inevitable reality makes all the difference. Imagine this case example: Josh, retreating into his shell under the pressure of life's stress, leaves Lindsay spinning plates to maintain the family's harmony. Their story may sound familiar, and we're peeling back the layers to discover why Josh's withdrawal and Lindsay's increasing load brew the perfect storm of miscommunication.
Listen along as Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP guide you through the choppy waters of coping with stress and the burden it places on our partners, you'll gain insights into the silent battles that many couples face and how to navigate them with grace and understanding.
Hello and welcome, mrs Couples. Counseling for Parents. A show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Here are our parents Our dad, dr Steven Mitchell, and our mom, erin Mitchell.
Speaker 2:Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Steven Mitchell, I'm Erin Mitchell. On today's show we want to discuss how stress impacts a couple relationship in a very common dynamic that can develop between partners when they're both trying to manage and cope with stress. I'm going to jump into the case example and then we'll go from there. You can expound on other components that are present. How about that? Let's say we have Josh and Lindsay.
Speaker 2:Josh is feeling a significant amount of stress in his life currently. He's got a pretty busy job. He's got some family tensions in his own family taking place. He's worried about finances. He's a parent to three kids. He's got a lot going on. He's got a lot to be concerned about. A lot that takes his energy in a day.
Speaker 2:One of the things that Josh does when he gets stressed is he kind of goes inside of himself a little bit. He focuses on work. He focuses on getting tasks done. The result of that for the family and for Lindsay is that they lose access to Josh. Josh is a little bit more short with the kids. He has a little less patience with them. When he comes home they come up and they're like hey, dad check this out, look at this. He's like, yeah, okay, that's great, whatever. Then he just sort of moves on, he's just not there. The kids are being impacted, but then also Lindsay's being impacted because she's not feeling super connected to Josh. It's not like Josh is really checking in much on how she's doing and how her life is going. Lindsay sees this and she feels this disconnect. She sees this disconnect with the kids and she says, okay, what I'm going to try to do is I'm going to take on more. And let's be mindful here Lindsay is already doing quite a bit. She is the default parent, she's got a job, but she's responsible for a lot of the kids stuff, for a lot of the house stuff. She's already doing a ton. She says I'm going to do a little more to try and create this utopian Zen home environment for Josh so that when he comes home because he's stressed, because he's got a lot going on, he will be engaged, there won't be any stressors when he comes home, so that he will check in with the kids, check in with me. We'll have Josh.
Speaker 2:But guess what? It doesn't work. Lindsay does all this work, she takes on more stuff and Josh is still short. Josh is still disconnected, josh is still gone, so Lindsay brings it up. Hey, you know what, josh, you've been a little short with the kids. Hey, you know, josh, you haven't really asked me how things are going for me at work. Or you know what? There's some things around the house that I feel like you're not pitching in to do.
Speaker 2:And Josh boy, he's like whoa, what are you talking about? I've been doing this, I've been doing that. You know what. I'm stressed out. I wish you could just give me some space and understand.
Speaker 2:Things are kind of tough right now. I've got a lot going on. Or he starts listing out off like what do you mean? I come home, I play with the kids, I clean the dishes on the weekends, I take them to sports, whatever it might be, and Josh and Lindsay kind of go back and forth and Lindsay's like sure, josh, you're doing a lot, you got a lot going on. And yeah, you know what, you're taking the kids to sports. But you know what? You're snapping at them. It's like you're not even here. You're doing all that stuff, but you're not present. And Josh's response is you know what? It's never enough. No matter what I do, it's never enough for you. Yeah, things are always harder for you, lindsay, than they are for me. I guess I'll just work harder. And this is the story that we are walking into, and I got to be honest, I don't want to walk into this story. This feels pretty intense, but it is something that I mean. Every couple that we've ever talked to has a version of?
Speaker 2:Has some version of?
Speaker 3:Sure, maybe yeah. I mean this is very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very common, yeah, so I think, I think a lot of times this person comes across to their partner is angry all the time.
Speaker 2:The like Lindsay comes across isn't it yeah, yeah. And I think, no matter what I do, you know, and it's in that voice. You know I can't do enough.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:See you like that.
Speaker 3:I think that At least I would say a lot of the couples we talk to the Lindsay's in this scenario or maybe the Josh's in this scenario feel like Lindsay's mad all the time, like Lindsay just walks around angry with Josh constantly, and I think that that's probably a little true, yeah, not necessarily incorrect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think that there is real anger and I think that but I think that that she used as a way to dismiss what's happening for Lindsay. Well, you know, you're just angry all the time, like nothing.
Speaker 3:You think Josh uses the? Anger to say there's nothing that could satisfy you.
Speaker 2:Yeah you. Just you get worked up about stuff like this rather than like oh wow, you're walking around angry all the time. I wonder if I have any contribution to that being the case for you. I would really like to understand rather than saying like, well, that's just because you're being extra.
Speaker 3:Well, I think a lot of the times right, like because I think that couples I mean, so I did a post on this.
Speaker 2:I honestly don't remember it this way A couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 3:Yes, and I don't think Lindsay the Lindsay's who read this knew this is what they were feeling and thinking, until you see something with some words and you're like, yes, that is yes. So I don't think Lindsay's walking around like gee, I hope Josh will notice all these things and that this is what's really going on, and how lonely and how At the core of this is like I miss Josh, I want Josh and our kids miss Josh and we're all just sort of waiting for Josh to show back up and Like.
Speaker 2:so a lot of times these things are happening outside of partners. Awareness in terms of Josh doesn't yeah, he knows he's stressed, but he doesn't really know that he's not present and Lindsay is sort of ramping up what she's doing and not really aware of, like I'm doing that because I want Josh's presence until until you're aware of it, Right, and I think that in the Right, but I think we become aware of it in little ways and in little moments and I think that those stack up and I think typically they stack up negatively.
Speaker 3:I think they stack up and make the communication about the core of this even harder, because they do come out in a moment. They come out in a scenario about bedtime or dinner or what doesn't really matter chew time. It truly doesn't matter how it comes out, but Josh feels like Lindsay's overreacting. It's not that big of a deal. Did I lose my patience? Yes, I apologize. Like it's not that big of a deal, but it's not just this moment.
Speaker 2:It's stacked up. It's stacked up. It's like you've been losing patience with the kids for a month.
Speaker 3:You know like, yeah, it's more often than not, I expect that you're impatient self. More often than not, I expect you to be disengaged. And then Josh is like well.
Speaker 3:more often than not, I expect you to be angry at me all the time Like yeah, and so I think that the attempts at communicating about this to solve it, because I think both Josh and Lindsay want to repair this. I think they want to solve this conflict, but I think that the attempts are worse. I think it feels like you're overreactive and like you are so unaware of what you're like of what it's like to be around you, of what it's like for us to be in your presence.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so you know, this is how this dynamic goes poorly.
Speaker 3:I think it matters a lot how both partners' stories have impacted this and so, like, when we're working with this couple, when we are sitting with Josh and Lindsay, I know exactly. I mean, we have a pretty like set formula on how this is gonna go and it's very important for both Josh and Lindsay to understand what is going on. For both Josh and Lindsay, like, what are the contributing things? Because I have never understood the expression but dollars to donuts.
Speaker 2:Dollars to donuts. I like both dollars and donuts.
Speaker 3:I think I would say almost 100% of the time. I'm just gonna say 100% of the time. Josh is trying so hard to keep his stress from his family. I think more than anything, at the end of the day, that what Josh wants is for his family to not be impacted by how dysregulated, diseased overwhelmed, unbalanced anxious, nervous, I mean honestly, sometimes terrified. You talk to people sometimes and they are terrified. Business is falling apart. They have no money.
Speaker 2:There's worry, there is in the future.
Speaker 3:It's not like, and then sometimes it's like the day just got the best of me. But typically when you are in this sort of level of disconnection, there is a real something happening. For Josh that is saying disconnect because otherwise you could and again that's Josh's story Like whatever is informing that you could be really angry. Maybe Josh had some experiences of real anger and rage coming out, and he doesn't want that, so just keep it together.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right. Josh has a story of like this is how and why I respond to stress with withdrawal and Sort of a freeze and like limiting access. I don't think Josh knows that. No, no, no, but there is a story about why it happens and you're saying like the way into this conversation, so is Like how to fix what's broken here. Yeah, is for Josh and Lindsay first of all to be aware of what is happening for them in terms of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like Josh has got to know what's happening for him, he also has to know what's happening for Lindsey. But, but they got to check in first with themselves and share that right, because and they're free time, and then they quiet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean honestly this is why people reach out to us yeah but, I don't know how.
Speaker 2:If Josh and Lindsey knew how to do this, yeah, they would yeah, but but I think that you know there's, there is so, so they do have to know that that Story, and so you know, as you were describing, and you gave a little bit of some things that might be happening for Josh, some things that might be happening for before we go on, though, I think, no matter what it's, it can be hard, especially when we're angry and hurt by our partner, to Not that we don't want to know the things that are impacting and informing these things, but it's like.
Speaker 3:So what like? Just because that happened doesn't excuse this behavior sure and. I want to say you're right.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 3:No, Explanations are not excuses ever. But we cannot understand and find actionable difference without understanding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can't find a different path of action. Yes, we have to understand the explanation.
Speaker 3:It doesn't excuse the behavior, but it is the first step to something else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, and I think that you know, we we were talking about this a little bit, or I don't remember when but one of the things that in terms of like an explanation for what's happening for Lindsey, is kind of this idea of Lindsey feeling this burden but that she's got to, like, take care of all of these things Because that's what Lindsey was supposed to do, whether that's because that's Lindsey's story, whether that's because that's what you saw.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, that's Lindsey's, you know, identifies as a woman, and that's what women are supposed to do and that's what the patriarchy and you know, these, these kinds of systems, demand of oppression, you know, can can generate Lindsey sitting there feeling like the like I. I need to do more. I need to make life easier for Josh.
Speaker 3:So again, like who knows exactly what all is informing Lindsey's.
Speaker 2:Rationale reasons.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but again, I mean, I think those words even imply that this has been thought out, but I think are telling her nervous system to react in old story ways because presumably before Lindsey and Josh had kids, lindsey would have never done that, josh Maybe would have never asked her to do that. You know Lindsey would have seen Josh and stress and been like Josh is stressed you know that's about Josh Not about me, yeah, or that like that, would therefore then be asking something of me or demanding something of me.
Speaker 3:So I think again. But these are the things you have to know. You have to know your stories that inform your nervous systems, reactions to things, because it may be absolutely opposite of what you'd ever want to be choosing to do. In fact, I'm pretty sure Lindsey doesn't want To be choosing this right but one, I think. Josh want to be asking for this scenario to be happening either. Well, and.
Speaker 2:I think that that's what has to happen. There has to be a reframe of what's, of what's taking place, because I think Lindsey Lindsey's angry, right, she's upset I think justifiably so because she's sitting here saying, hey, josh, I'm taking on the lion's share of stuff here to try and help your life feel better so that we can get some presents from you. And Josh reacts to that probably like in a defensive way, like, hey, like you know, I'm doing stuff. I'm not, you know, it's not all the time, it's not that bad.
Speaker 2:Maintained his division of labor stuff or he's, or he says well, you know, that's on you, you don't have to do that for you know for me. And then Lindsey's probably like you know what? Hey, how about we do it for the kids? Because this isn't like great for the kids, let's, you know, forget about me, josh. Let's just like Not make it bad for the kids.
Speaker 2:And then that gets really personal, like, oh, you're saying I don't care about our kids, like I'm a bad parent. It goes, goes back and forth. And so I think that the reframe here is is a little bit of Lindsey kind of coming into awareness, of Saying like, oh, you know what I'm taking on More than I should, more than I should be responsible for. There's an inequity here.
Speaker 2:And and saying, telling Josh that and telling the story about why that happened, how it happened, why that, why she might feel compelled to do that, and and saying to Josh you know what, josh, I get your stress, I get you're overwhelmed, I get that this is really hard, but you are not present for us, you are not engaged with us, and I understand that that's because of your stress. And what you need to do is you need to do some work on Figuring out how you can manage your stress and cope and be present and be engaged with us as a family, because I'm doing the same thing Managing. You are right I let. Lindsay is trying to manage the same thing, and so that's what's asked of Lindsay, right? Right, that's, that's what's being asked of me.
Speaker 3:I'm doing more than her share. Is Lindsay managing her stress?
Speaker 2:Which we said she's already doing because she's the default parent too, and so there's already an inequity there for Lindsay in terms of Well, maybe, Well, I mean, I think, if she's the default parent, like often, okay, so oftentimes there is, and so but I think in this scenario I even said Josh can easily say like I am doing my 50%, like you to.
Speaker 3:Ed you, I'm it is faultless.
Speaker 2:Sure, sure, Okay, let's give him that. I don't think yeah.
Speaker 2:Because that happens too, but it is shifting where Lindsay's saying like, hey, like I get, things are hard, but you like, it's not that you need to do more at home, it's not that you need to do more task, it's not that you need to, you know, be more and do more with the kids. It's that you need to figure out yourself and how to manage your stress and how to be present. That's the request, that's the reframe in terms of, I think, like how to shift this conversation out of the back and forth, the back. You know like, well, I'm doing what you know, I'm doing stuff around the house, I'm here with the kids. You know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I think if we're working with this couple, we're gonna help them. I'm clarifying to make sure I heard what you're saying we're gonna help them understand the stories that are informing these nervous system reactions, because there are. And they both have to understand both sides and, honestly, this is one of, I would say, the most profoundly beautiful things to get to experience, from our perspective.
Speaker 2:Sure and talking with couples yes well, even personally.
Speaker 3:But I did mean in talking with couples, because when you understand first for yourself, when you see the things that are contributing to this story that is leading you to behave in a particular way, it is almost always met with kindness.
Speaker 2:Don't you think that revelation, like the real revelation of the stories that have informed some of yeah, because I mean Josh might say, you know, hey, like this is hard, like I'm really stressed from a business or finances standpoint because you know what I grew up and we didn't have a lot of money and I grew up and we always struggled as a family and that's not something I want for our family and I feel like we're doing okay, but I'm worried that we might not be. And so like, yes, I am distracted with work all the time. Yes, I'm on my phone on the weekends, you know.
Speaker 3:Making sure I answer every last email.
Speaker 2:You know, after I've taken our kid to the game, like I've done that, but I'm sitting there distracted, not engaged, not present, because I am so worried about feeling that, like, those are the stories that inform, like why Josh is stressed. It's not, he's not a bad person because he's stressed, he's struggling, he's having a hard time managing it. And so for Lindsay to be able to hear like okay, that's happening. And for Lindsay to be like okay, that makes sense, I get it, but it's still fair for Lindsay to be like I get it, no-transcript, but we gotta, you gotta figure out a way to cope with that, but not yet.
Speaker 3:So I think we have to have the like all the way everybody gets it, because that is a beautiful and softening experience where it's like well, I can actually see that. Again to your point, it doesn't make it okay.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 3:But like well, yeah, and most of us know a lot of these things, but we haven't put them in the same.
Speaker 2:Well, we know the stories. We don't necessarily know which stories and how the stories are being activated.
Speaker 3:Even with ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah and like pushed in the moment, and so that's what we're having to tell our partner Like, oh, like, hey you know First what we're having to tell ourselves. Right, right, right. Hey, you know that story about like struggling as a kid, you know, financially and our family not having a lot Like that's really happening right now. As you know, we just had a big loss at the business in terms of our profits this month.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I got home and the first thing I heard someone say is like my cleats are too tight and it's just like oh, that means more cleats.
Speaker 2:Right. So that story. It's really kicking into gear right now.
Speaker 1:No one knows that Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and again, josh might not know that, so he's gotta reflect on that, and then he's gotta be able to share that with Lindsey and Lindsey has a similar thing happening about all of it.
Speaker 3:So, yes, that has to happen. And then I think what you were saying is and then we have to start working with that. So like, okay, well, we can't, our kids don't need soccer cleats and work is still doing. Whatever it is that work is doing, Our finances are our bank account or whatever is happening that is creating this stress, which means we know what the stressors are, because we have to know what the stressors are and we have to know what the stressors mean to us and we have to know end each other. And then we have to find a way to engage them in a healthy way that we're choosing, rather than just a reactive way that is sometimes propelling or repelling our partner, whatever. But we need to find some choice in handling this stress in a way that involves choice and connection. Engagement and presence is still not perfectly.
Speaker 3:We aren't going to do this perfectly, but then when it does come up and Lindsey is able to say to Josh, josh, it's happening, like right now it's happening, I feel like oh, you're leaving, you're withdrawing like that. Yeah, I feel like your intensity about this isn't exactly where you feel like it is.
Speaker 2:That Josh doesn't hear that as a criticism, but he hears it as an invitation to like hey, this is one of those moments that I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:Like I know the stress is there. I want to be sensitive to it, I want to be aware of it, but also, like I want to ask from you to be accountable to us and to engage that stress in a different way that doesn't cause us to lose you, and what that looks like. What that is is that is Lindsey not assuming responsibility for things that are not hers to own. That is her, in a sense, saying like I'm taking back that space in my life and I'm not going to assume responsibility for things I shouldn't. And that is an invitation and call for Josh to step into. Quote unquote doing more, but it's much more doing more within himself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and those are co-regulating moments. They certainly can't be. And I think the point here is and this is what we, I think we tell most of the couples we work with like what we really think that can happen with this process, with talking about things in this way, is you can decrease intensity. So maybe that's one of those moments when Lindsey says like, hey, it's happening that she wouldn't have had access to that because she didn't know she would have just like oh well, we need to work harder.
Speaker 2:She would have just started all of a sudden doing more. Oh, maybe she'd take the kids and do something else Like oh, it seems like you need to well.
Speaker 3:Well, just go. We're going to take a walk, whatever but like it can decrease the intensity of those moments and it can reduce the frequency of how often they're happening. So you know, this used to be an every night thing, and now it's like that only happened once last week. Actually I don't remember the last time that happened, or like that happened last night. But you know what?
Speaker 2:I don't think it's happened in a while and if you notice you use that word co-regulating experience. That is really what you want with partners is to be able to do that for each other.
Speaker 3:For each other, because maybe that's not even a widely understood term.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, so like for Lindsay to be able to say like hey, this is one of those moments, like you were saying, it allows her to regulate herself and not kick into some overdrive.
Speaker 3:Well, that is her checking in with herself. That's her not taking Josh's stress on herself.
Speaker 2:And Josh responding to that as an invitation, as a like oh, this is a helpful comment, allows him to not respond defensively, not to get upset, which regulates that moment, and then allows him to check in with himself and be able to work on the tools that he hopefully has been developing and then he's been.
Speaker 3:I was just gonna say that I think that's the other primary thing we do is say like okay, so what are we gonna do in these situations? Because they happen. We were talking about this recently, about, like you know, communication's not complicated really, but communication in stress is complicated. There's a lot happening. Couple say it all the time like we used to like have great communication and we're like, but now you suddenly don't whatever could have happened, probably had a lot less stress.
Speaker 3:But I think and which doesn't mean like perfect and imperfect we're not talking about that but, like, I do think there are ways to figure out how to find each other even in those moments of stress, and offer a lifeline.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, be mutually supportive of one another.
Speaker 3:We worked out. Like hey, when I say it's happening again, then you know that that means and that you can say like hey, I really need something. And I can say, hey, is there anything you need? Or you can say like hey, well, what do you need?
Speaker 2:Or there's even this part where Josh can be aware of like hey, Lindsay, I notice that it seems like you're kicking into overdrive a little bit and trying to manage things. It seems like you're feeling maybe that I'm not present and you need to do more. Hey, I see it. You don't have to do that, I get it, I'll check back in Even that.
Speaker 2:that is how it kind of mutually happens for both sides to be aware of each other, to help each other, to invite each other to a different kind of response. Today's show was produced by Aaron and Steven Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents. And remember, working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.