Couples Counseling For Parents
It's something every couple with kids feels but doesn't talk about: Loneliness.
Got a question, comment, or just want to drop some encouragement? Send us a text.
Got a question, comment, or just want to drop some encouragement? Send us a text.
Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents a show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Here are our parents our dad, dr Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, erin Mitchell. Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Stephen Mitchell.
Speaker 2:I'm Erin Mitchell and we're excited to be here with you. I think this is a really important podcast. So yeah, I don't know that I would have said excited. I think it feels really important.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe that's what I feel too. I feel so, let me tell you. Let me tell you what I've been thinking about everybody, because I've been thinking about this podcast and what we're going to talk about today, and some of it is well, not some of it. All of it is because of some interactions we've been having with our community. And I think, I don't know, a week or two ago, aaron had posted something about kind of living life without involved grandparents. You know, maybe due to they're not, they don't live close, or maybe it's not the healthiest relationship, or you know a myriad of other reasons. And then also, aaron is going to be starting this group called mothering without a mother, and just talking about what it is like, I mean, the name is pretty self-explanatory. I was about to explain the name, but it sounds pretty clear, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, but I think I am starting a group for Mothers Without Mothers, and that is for any reason. I think you mentioned some of those like living far away, you don't have your mother in the day-to-day interactions, estrangement, bad, bad relationship, passed away.
Speaker 2:Um, there are a lot of reasons um that people end up in this situation and um, it's not great, it's hard, it's taxing, it's it's taxing on um, like on myself, um, but also it's a lot to navigate um for the whole family I think one of the things we're going to talk about is like the impact that it has on our kids and that impact that impact has on us, and then also the the strain and the tax that it can, it can have on a couple where like. We are our only resource. We are like, like, and that's not bad, it's just, it is a reality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and kind of in light, so thinking about that. Also, if you do want to know about that group, just subscribe to our newsletter. We are going to be sending out information each week about the group to remind people that it's happening before it launches.
Speaker 2:You can also just email and we can add you that way.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, anyway. But so all these things have had me thinking about. And then also, I guess, if I'm honest, like some of the things that we have been kind of dealing with as a couple just being parents and running a business and you know we don't have any family here where we live I'm kind of dealing with as a couple just being parents and running a business, and you know we don't have any family here where we live. You know, our parents I mean, both of your parents are no longer living. My dad's not living, not super close with my mom.
Speaker 1:So just some of these realities, and I think it just made me think about how lonely couples feel sometimes in this stage of their life as parents and as partners. There's just this overwhelming sense of like it's just me, it's just us, and it's just me, it's just us, and I think that that loneliness can really weigh heavily on a couple. I feel like it's weighed heavily on us at times, like without like awareness, and then what begins to happen is you're fighting, there's conflict, there's resentment. You're fighting, there's conflict, there's resentment. There's sort of just a flavor of like disappointment and like lack of contentment in your relationship and in your life and I think some of it does stem to this feeling of just like I feel really alone and I don't feel like I have help.
Speaker 1:And I think when a partner feels like that, then they look to their partner, you know. So Steven feels that way. He looks to Aaron and says help me not feel alone. But Aaron feels alone already and she's looking to Steven saying an intensification of that feeling of loneliness. Yes, I want to take a nap. I feel really sad talking about that.
Speaker 2:I think that there is great sadness, and I think that's part of it, because I think that that's a little bit of the complicated nature of this topic, because, um, our lives are rich and good sure yeah and I think a lot of the couples we talk to would say the same like we have so much, to be thankful for and you know, like I, I did a post a long time ago made about, like our, I'm feeling our house is filling up with people, but I've never felt so alone um like because like and it's and, and you know, like it's, just, it's a, it's one of those paradoxes where to say that some like you're in a lonely season of life doesn't mean it's only lonely or that, like I, don't enjoy our interactions right, right.
Speaker 1:I'm not happy with my absolutely kids or relationship because that's the segue here.
Speaker 2:is that like? So, yes, you mentioned the grandparents, um, and like our connection to our families, but there are a lot of, um, sort of thematic reasons. Couples in this season of their life feel this way. I including, but not limited to people, have moved. We live in a city that is very transient, so your neighbors are here one day, or maybe one day, maybe a couple of years or something, and then there's a new job in a new city and they're gone and we've been that neighbor quite a few times We've moved a lot for your school and fellowships and jobs and research and it's moved us a lot and it's hard to feel rooted, even if it's not to family.
Speaker 2:It's hard to feel rooted, even to your own community and friends when people are moving a lot.
Speaker 1:And something I've been thinking about, just even personally too. I think that this stage of life, for adults, it's just hard to have friends. You work, you have kids, you're busy and and it's like. So when, like like, if I look at my life and I'm like you know, it's not all that free time. Yeah, there's not a lot of free time. It's not not like I'm sitting there planning a bunch of get-togethers with friends, outside of doing things as a couple or doing things with the kids' sports teams or those kinds of things Sorry go ahead.
Speaker 1:But I'm just saying I think people also feel like I don't know how to make friends right now. I don't know, I don't know when I would, I don't know when I would spend time doing that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:And that is an important part of life and relationship too, and sure, I think a lot of times, um, friendships have seasons and I think that that's a really complicated thing to recognize also. So you, I've had best friends. I have a group of friends I've had since preschool. I have a group of friends I've had since my freshman year of high school.
Speaker 2:I have, um, like different groups of friends, but we had kids first, I mean we had kids last out of your group of friends and kids first out of my group of friends um and that absolutely immediately and instantly puts you in different sort of friend groups like where you're just doing different things at different times, and that's not bad, but it's hard. So then your new friend group becomes the friends who have kids your age.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But they might be a new friend group. So like, maybe you don't say all the things that are going on. Yeah, we talk about our kids and we talk about what we're doing as parents, but do I really share how much disconnection?
Speaker 1:me and you feel no Like oh no, we aren't that. How deep do we go here? Yes, exactly. I'm also just thinking you mentioned some periods of your life where you had friends. I'm also just thinking, like you mentioned some periods of your life where you had friends and I was just like I didn't really make friends till college. That kind of makes me feel like maybe I wasn't so good at making friends Because I wouldn't say like I just was having a little moment of self-reflection.
Speaker 1:It was like, hmm, that feels sad even, I guess, in terms of how I am and my personality and how I can or can't make friends.
Speaker 2:I think that's another really important thing to consider as a couple. So I lived in the same house from seven until my mom passed away and that house was gone. And before I was seven I lived in away and that house was gone Um, and before I was seven I lived in the house on the same street. We, we literally moved. I forget how many houses done. I knew at one point it was 10 or so um up the street and it was devastating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like my community was very much my community. So having that change in my adult life like that has not been the case for us.
Speaker 1:Right in my adult life like that has not been the case for us. Right, I've moved so much right um, but that was your life yeah, I moved a good bit.
Speaker 2:Yes, um, which isn't. There's not like a good or a bad. There's, there's um, but it is a different experience. So we come to these things, we even approach when we've talked about this a thousand times. It is very important to me that our kids feel rooted, and it is really difficult for me to imagine how to do that without aunts, uncles, cousins right the first grade teacher who lives.
Speaker 1:I know where exactly they live and um your first grade teacher that you grew up with, you mean yeah well yeah, he actually didn't, but sure, yeah, I know exactly where she lives um, but like yes, I'm saying you want our kids to be that connected or like oh, that's Mrs Johnson's house.
Speaker 2:And you know that kind of Mrs Lowry yeah.
Speaker 1:Miss Lowry, yes, but like that kind of sense of rootedness and connectedness is, it can contribute to your feeling of loneliness, even as a parent at this stage of life, because you're like I don't feel like we have that.
Speaker 2:And I think that we end up wanting to. Yes, I think it can contribute, but I also think it can feel like oh, but the only rubric I have is what I knew yeah, yeah, yeah, so like oh.
Speaker 1:So what do I do? What do we do? How do?
Speaker 2:we do this? How do we navigate this? And um, and I think a lot of people are happy. I was so happy moving around when it was just the two of us yeah we loved it. We lived in seattle, we lived in bozeman, montana. We lived like we, we moved and felt like, honestly, like it was this epic adventure. Um I we have so many pictures of like the first night.
Speaker 2:We would sleep in a little tiny apartment, like having dinner, like we just saw one recently um where, where Steven made like this makeshift dinner out of like some folding chairs and like some sort of table.
Speaker 1:It wasn't a real table, but he like made a table out of it. It's one of our many moves, yeah, and like this is like our first dinner there and we have a lot of those and that felt sweet and good to me, until we had a kid and I was like so this person you thought I was?
Speaker 2:that was fine, but I am a different person now.
Speaker 1:And so I think that a lot of couples deal with this feeling of loneliness and I think two couples can feel bad. They can feel like is something wrong? Did we do something wrong?
Speaker 2:You shouldn't feel lonely, but can also feel personal right.
Speaker 1:Say more.
Speaker 2:Like if I'm lonely, or frankly, like if you're, if you were saying you're really lonely, like well, I'm right here.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, like I should be, yeah, yeah, like, why are you lonely if I'm here? We've got our family, you know, yes, and so, honestly, that's really interesting because I think that that's a dynamic or even a conversation that happens so like one that we've had, where, you know, aaron, you're like we need this rootedness, we need, you know I need to.
Speaker 2:I wanted to go home, I wanted to live by my mom.
Speaker 1:There was no other possible scenario and I was always like but we've got each other and you know we can home, can be here, like what we create and all that kind of stuff which was the story you grew up, right? Right and um, you know, to some extent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it wasn't always yeah home was interesting for me, um, but but at least my siblings, you know, were who I was close with and what felt like home. And so I think, even in that there's just this disconnect or this feeling of like that we walk away feeling lonely, where you're like why can't you see how important this is and see this aspect of my life and who I am? And then I think, like why can't we just be enough?
Speaker 1:and you right bloom where we're planted, you know do that kind of thing and so I think you get into these conversations, but I but I think it's but go ahead.
Speaker 2:I think I think we all, all, oh my, I think all of us at certain times feel misunderstood in our loneliness and I think to be perfectly.
Speaker 2:it's because we don't actually understand our loneliness, because who among us is sitting around reflecting on you know, like you know, the thing we say all the time is you have to actually know what you're trying to communicate before you start talking. But mostly we don't. We start talking first and try to figure it out as we go. That's not a great communication skill but it is often, especially for parents, you know, like I don't, like I'm going to get to that when I get to that, and that is not today, um, but it doesn't change our feelings.
Speaker 1:We just don't necessarily understand what they're about, right, and I think that that's really important, that that I think first of all, like that couples can acknowledge that we do feel lonely and that doesn't mean you've done anything wrong, it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you. I do think that that is an aspect of this developmental stage in a couple's life that they can feel lonely, and it doesn't mean every couple out there does. But there is a subset of couples that do, and that's normal and that's okay, a subset of couples that do, and that's normal and that's okay. But you do then have to recognize, like, okay, what is that? How does that loneliness impact our relationship? And then what can we do about it? Because it is impacting your relationship and I think that, to your point is, you individually have to understand like, well, what does loneliness mean?
Speaker 2:So I think, for me personally and I don't know if I'm answering your question, but I think I mislabeled my loneliness for the first four years of our kids' lives, of our oldest kids, I guess um of us becoming parents, rather as me, disliking your job like the problem is your work yeah, yeah, like you are too invested at your job. And if you weren't working?
Speaker 2:so much, and if you weren't so committed to um advancing to be fair for our family, sure, sure, sure all the while and I think this is almost universal that when you become parents, you want more time as a family and you suddenly need exponentially more money. Right, right which typically for most people means you have to figure out new work, more work, different work so these things. They are competing. They don't usually work well together, and so I think I was very lonely um because that we moved very shortly after we had our kids to for a fellowship like for this career advancement.
Speaker 2:It was going to be better yeah and it was hard and I said, oh, I'm lonely because of that thing right you are doing and that is taking you away from me. There's truth in that, but that wasn't the whole truth of it.
Speaker 1:It was a really good and easy excuse.
Speaker 1:But that's what I mean. Does that answer your question? Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I was even thinking, yes, that does. But I also think, just on a deeper level.
Speaker 1:I think for me, one of the things that I have to, so, one of the things I've realized in our relationship, is, I generally think I'm a pretty good dad and as a husband, is that I can, I can tend or trend towards being stressed and overwhelmed, which makes me disengaged and moody, and that I can get kind of and that can be like an energy suck, like a black hole of like, just like sucking the energy out of our family system. And I think how I have experienced that is I'm like it's situational, right, it's like, oh, it's like I need a different job, or oh, we just need some more money, or oh, it's where we live, or oh, we just need, you know, I need Aaron to, you know, just act this way, or I need the kids to do this, or I just need the house to be cleaner, you know, or whatever it is Like, and I've kind of like gone through like with that attitude and spirit. But I think, as time has gone on, what I realized is I'm just really lonely, and, and I'm just really lonely. And I'm lonely not because I'm dissatisfied in my relationship with you or in my relationship with the kids, or even in my job or even what I'm doing. I'm lonely because I've had that feeling ever since I was little and I've never really known what to do with it.
Speaker 1:And the reason I've had that feeling of loneliness is because of just my experience, my experience growing up. You know, I didn't have the best, I didn't have a good relationships with my parents. My parents were angry a lot and they fought a lot and they were scary and I you know my dad was kind of this big scary dude who had a temper and you know my mom was had a temper and was scary and it felt like I couldn't, I couldn't go be close with them because it was frightening to be close with them. And so as a little kid I remember oftentimes just a feeling of like like feeling like absolutely alone and unsure of what to do. Thankfully I was had two siblings and we had good relationships, but I think they felt pretty lonely too.
Speaker 1:You know, we did the best we could as kids to kind of make that environment feel better, but I think what it did is like inside of me, like in my, like in my spirit.
Speaker 1:It caused me to feel like there's no one here for me ever and I and I'm not trying to be dramatic I had felt that way as long as I can remember and I think that I go through life and as I go through life, I have that feeling of is there anyone here for me?
Speaker 1:When you run into these big scary things of trying to live life, of trying to be an adult, of having kids, of having a relationship, of running a business, of trying to survive, like all of these things where you, where, if you had like kind of something inside of yourself that helped you feel like you weren't alone or that you belonged somewhere or that you were connected somewhere, like things would feel different. And I think that, at least for me, like what I've realized about the loneliness is it is located in that, oh sure, and that directly impacts how I bring myself to our relationship and how I bring myself to being a dad. And I think that oftentimes I find that in the couples that we talk with, I find that to be true for a lot of people and yet they're not really aware that they're dealing with that kind of absence and that that absence from before intimately connects their present. So I think that that's another level of like you're kind of. That's how you experience loneliness.
Speaker 1:It's your job. I think I've experienced it more in that internal like wow, like I'm dealing with a really powerful feeling that I've had my whole life. But I'm calling it something else and I'm and I'm and I'm uh, and I'm kind of trying to fix it like by you know, uh, fixing you or fixing the kids or doing a lot yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, I think, yes, I mean, I think that's a really powerful story I can like, I can feel that. I think I think that's very relatable. I imagine a lot of people listening have a version of that. I don't think it's the same. I think a lot of people had very physically present parents, but I think a lot of people had very um physically present parents, but I think a lot of us experienced a nurture gap um I think uh just sort of like because of the way parenting styles were at that time.
Speaker 2:I yeah, not everybody um, but I think yes so like I think some people will be like oh, but my parents were there. But then when you really think about it, like, well, I think they wanted to be you know like they they meant to be, they thought they were, but. But just because we had parents who had positive intentions, it doesn't mean they were everything we needed, um or that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and a parent can't be everything you need, but but, but I do think what that, that idea of the nurture guys? Really I think that's a good way of saying it.
Speaker 2:Steven loves something I say every single podcast.
Speaker 1:That's going to be the new takeaway. Well, that's I.
Speaker 2:Just I saw your face when I said it, like, oh, that's going to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think that that is is really true and that's a societal thing, a generational thing, as you're saying. An understanding of parenting, like you know, what we understand about neuroscience and attachment and like what brings healthy relationships, is a lot different now than what we knew then, although you know some of it is common sense as well.
Speaker 2:Well, some people knew it. Then my mom was very yeah. But yeah, my point is like I think it is relatable, even if it's not like oh yeah, my parents were scary, but like I didn't always feel like I could come to them If I had a big problem.
Speaker 1:I can't remember being told I was loved by my parents or I can't. You know, we didn't really hug much, or there wasn't much affection or there wasn't much encouragement, like that doesn't mean your home was terrible, right, but it is an absence right, it is something that can leave you feeling that message of there's no one here to help me.
Speaker 1:I have to help myself, it's all up to me, I'm the only one I can rely on, I'm the only one I can trust. I think that when there's messages and stories like that that run through our hearts and our minds, that is an indication of that gap.
Speaker 2:And then you think about us. I'm just going to continue to give us an example. So you have a me who wanted desperately for, like, some sort of a repeat family experience. I definitely wanted a different family makeup but, yeah, like I expected that my kids would be friends with their friends. Like I am preschool through, for you know, 40.
Speaker 1:And I expected my kids wouldn't have friends till college. I don't think you ever thought about it, but then okay.
Speaker 2:So someone like me, mary, someone like Steven, where, like the you, what you really wanted was to achieve and to like. That is what made you feel safe and secure.
Speaker 1:I think and like the next achievement, next achievement next achievement, not very relational, If you know, it's just very I think it's very relational. Well, the the intention is like then I'll be safe, Sure, sure, I won't be alone.
Speaker 2:So I think that and it doesn't.
Speaker 1:Maybe maybe the way I said it wasn't kind, but like I think that I didn't think it was unkind, I just think it's that that achieving was much more like the accomplishing of things is what helped me feel better, and so that's very, a very task oriented, task focused way of doing things, not really a relational way of connecting way of doing things, not really a relational way of connecting.
Speaker 2:So I think I'm saying the same thing. No-transcript, so I think I did, but I feel like, I just feel like to externally be trying to achieve. So internally, you feel like you can be safe and secure is very relational. It doesn't look relational on paper If you write, I am task focused like yeah that doesn't look good.
Speaker 1:You can tell I've done a lot of healing around this right.
Speaker 2:That's kind of why I'm looking at you like what are we talking about? We've talked about this a million times.
Speaker 1:I get it now, but like the.
Speaker 2:How did someone come to be a task-oriented person? Because it's going to do something internally to soothe or help feel safe or protect or whatever. But I'm just saying like. So I'm like home forever. We're going to live on the same street and we're going to buy our first house when we whatever. I don't know, and then we live there forever.
Speaker 2:Right, and you're like I'm going to achieve and that requires to go to PhD school here, that requires an internship there, that requires a fellowship here, I need to do research here and that. And honestly, it was fine until I said I had kids, until we had kids. And then I said, like that started to create panic in me, and so I think a lot of couples get to this Like wait a minute, though we had agreed, like you knew what was happening. And I'm like well, yeah, I was happy to move then.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so in a way, I think what we we're a good question to ask yourself if you are um in a parenting partner relationship and you like I think just in a relationship, yeah, yeah are you aware of a feeling of loneliness, if you are? A second question to ask is how have you gone about trying?
Speaker 2:to fix it.
Speaker 1:You don't like those questions.
Speaker 2:I love those questions, but I think like 1A 1A go ahead.
Speaker 1:1a.
Speaker 2:How would someone know if they felt lonely? Because I think so many of us did not learn to identify our emotions. So, like what would loneliness maybe look like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think it could look a lot of ways.
Speaker 2:Agreed Already.
Speaker 1:I think, like you know, a restlessness, a discontentment, a kind of angst, a sort of this feeling of like nothing's enough. I got to get more a feeling of emptiness, a feeling of kind of anxiety or constant striving, a feeling of being so externally focused and so helpful to everyone else and so concerned with how everyone else is doing that you run yourself into the ground and you have no awareness of yourself, like all kinds of things.
Speaker 2:I think to that point. Um, I think a lot of lonely people are out there making sure no one else feels lonely.
Speaker 1:So I think um yeah, or like what like for me, to be quite honest, like the way like just really withdrawn, really like internal um, not looking to connect, I think both. Like both of these things.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think some I think some of us are like oh, we all like eeyore seemed lonely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah but.
Speaker 2:Eeyore, whatever, that's a tale for a different day. But, I don't think lonely looks. I don't think we all know what it looks like, and so I think it's like we're expecting it to look one thing. Well, I don't look like that, so I'm not lonely.
Speaker 1:I've got plenty of friends, I do a lot of stuff, I'm very social, I'm very extro, but none of that has anything to do with in yourself?
Speaker 2:do you feel known?
Speaker 1:Do you feel cared for? Do you feel solid within yourself? Do you feel a sense of well-being within yourself, or do you feel like a sense of emptiness and a need to strive for something that's not there? That's what, all of those things. I don't think it has to be either, or I like the first part of that better.
Speaker 2:I think this because the second part doesn't resonate for me, but the first part certainly does, so I think-.
Speaker 1:Of the first part being Like the.
Speaker 2:Do you feel all the things you just listed? The first, but like the striving, striving isn't I don't that I mean, which doesn't mean it isn't true for me, but that I'm not like oh yeah.
Speaker 1:So I just don't think it has to be right, it's not neither, or this is also like a maybe, do you feel?
Speaker 2:known. Do you feel like those things I'm like, ah, those are great guiding questions um so that first question of like do do I feel lonely?
Speaker 1:The one A of it is like what we just did, like how would I maybe know if I do or don't? We just threw out some ideas. And then I think there's the second question of like and how have I gone about trying to fix it? How have I gone about asking my partner to fix it?
Speaker 2:And fix doesn't have to be a bad word.
Speaker 1:I don't mean it negatively, yeah.
Speaker 2:But we're talking the difference of engagement actually having the opportunity to be known, to be understood in this place, to connect or like band-aids, or feeling like my partner demands this of me, Right?
Speaker 1:I think that's a band-aid For me.
Speaker 2:It was like oh, if you get a different job. Finally, when you finish your phd, if, oh, if.
Speaker 1:If there's always a like oh, I won't feel lonely when right, yes, like if there's whatever the fill in the blank is, and you might have different answers to that.
Speaker 2:For sure, each of you I I think I've had 700 different answers in our 16 years like yeah, yeah yeah, I think that, I think is a good indication, like, wait a minute, because because our level, my, my contentment, my, my sense of self cannot be dependent upon Stephen finishing a PhD, which doesn't mean qualitatively our life wasn't immediately improved because, to be clear, it was so much better when that was over. It's a long five years, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:So asking yourself those questions, and then I think part of it is being able, you know, after you have some answers.
Speaker 2:That internal part that we were talking about, those are you questions that you ask yourself.
Speaker 1:Then I think there's an external part of like moving towards your partner and asking them those same questions and saying like are you aware of any of this for yourself? And starting that conversation of is our relationship being impacted by a sense of loneliness that we haven't really been aware of? Or you are, or we are right? And then kind of having that conversation and if the answer is like yes, maybe you know, then I think, in terms of being clear with one another, then you can say like well, is there anything that we could do to help that feel different. And I think that primarily like one of the things you can do is to seek connection. To seek connection with one another, but to seek connection with others around you, but doing it in a more purposeful way, from a place of understanding yourself and your partner and what you both need. I mean. I think go ahead.
Speaker 2:I just like that. I like the part because I do think for anything to ever feel different, like really feel different it has to be known and understood and connected on right.
Speaker 1:Like you have to understand yourself.
Speaker 2:You have to before you can hope your partner will, and then you have to before you can hope your partner will right um, and then and then you move to action.
Speaker 1:Right, I just I was just really resonating right like yes, I think because I think already the connection.
Speaker 2:I think there's relief in naming um and I. It's not a thought, that's true, there's a relief in like oh, this is what this is it doesn't mean it changes anything, but there is a relief in that, and then that's where you can start trying to find action.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like like there's even been, you know, times where Aaron and I have talked about we're like you know what we do, want to feel more connected and then where you can be like okay, like who in our life? You know who in our life are people that we want to be connected with, and you know there's people here where we live in Denver. But also, like I remember one of the specific things we said is we are relative. We are pretty close with my, with my siblings and their kids and their partners, and so one of the things we've said is like we want to be more connected to them and we have specifically made efforts and plans to be like this is how we're going to do that, this is how we will see them.
Speaker 1:Our energies, our efforts, our money goes towards those kinds of things Because we have, you know, we've had that conversation about like we want to be connected. We don't feel connected. How can we be? And so that's what I mean by from that place of understanding you and your partner can actually do something that addresses your loneliness together in a purposeful and intentional way moving forward.
Speaker 2:I think it only furthers your point, but I think this is something and you may not always both feel this at the same time so I really wanted our kids to get to live and grow up with cousins. I did and it was honestly life-giving for me.
Speaker 2:When we were at my dad's house we basically lived at his sister's my aunt's house and her two daughters made that time Okay For me, when it really wouldn't have been without them life giving for me. And so for me to imagine my kids not like my kids, having cousins they loved and them not being around them. Just, I couldn't. And and one thing that, um, and that Steven didn't really grow up close to his cousins, and not that he didn't want our kids to be close to his cousins, but like um, no, they can't.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, but like that was, that just wasn't a value, that wasn't um well, I would say it was a value. I think it didn't like cause you to lose sleep right like oh yeah, this is how it happens, we'll see them and we go like aaron, we go no like I need to know that you are willing, like I need the commitment from you that, like, we will spend money. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Even when money is scarce, we will find a way to go and be with them Right Every year. We will see all cousins every year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at least Hopefully, sometimes. More, yeah, more yeah, as much as possible, you know bare minimum, and that is a way that Steven could move towards me in something that felt very specific to something I wanted. Well, and it's been such an enriching part of our life and our kids' lives. Yeah, and in no way do I mean to say that, like Steven, didn't value that yeah, I did yeah.
Speaker 2:Until we are able to say like these are the things I really want. Like this would make me feel more connected. This thing would make me feel more rooted to hear your partner say back I will prioritize that.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I don't understand it, but I don't have to understand it to get that it's a value for you. Okay, like, how do we map this out? Like, let's work on this and maybe, you know, maybe that can't be a goal this year, maybe we can't say yes, we will spend a thousand dollars on plane tickets. Like we can't do that, but I hear you and we will save and plan and we will do that. Right, so I'm just saying so there can be verbal validation and practical action.
Speaker 1:So the questions being am I feeling lonely? How would I know that? He gave some examples. How am I trying to fix that loneliness? Or how am I trying to ask my partner to fix that loneliness? Asking yourself those questions, then asking your partner those questions and then together making a plan of action for well, what can we do that could address this loneliness in a way that helps us both feel supported and connected? Today's show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents. And remember, working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.