Couples Counseling For Parents
Do You Love Me, Do You Want Me, Do You Accept Me?-Three Important Questions Parenting Partners Ask Each Other Every Day
Got a question, comment, or just want to drop some encouragement? Send us a text.
There are three questions that parenting partners are asking one another every day. They might not be asking them directly but in their conflict, in their frustration, in their stress these are the questions that underline all of these interactions. Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP tell you what the questions are and how you can your partner can answer them in the affirmative for one another.
Got a question, comment, or just want to drop some encouragement? Send us a text.
There are three questions that parenting partners are asking one another every day. They might not be asking them directly but in their conflict, in their frustration, in their stress these are the questions that underline all of these interactions. Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP tell you what the questions are and how you can your partner can answer them in the affirmative for one another.
Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents a show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Here are our parents our dad, Dr Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, Erin Mitchell. Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Stephen Mitchell, I'm Erin Mitchell, and today we wanted to chat about a conversation that Erin and I have been having this week and for the last 16 years of our marriage. So big, big, important conversation, I would say probably one of the most fundamental, foundational points of contention and connection for the two of us, and couples and couples.
Speaker 2:So definitely for us.
Speaker 1:But go ahead. I'm sorry, I interrupted you.
Speaker 2:Well, I was just going to say it has been coming up in different versions. It's definitely not like one couple or one story. This is something that we hear expressed different ways. One couple or one story this is something that we hear expressed different ways, but the thematic core and center is so much the same, and so it seems like we should directly discuss this.
Speaker 1:We should jump in and chat about this. So we're going to do that, but before we do that, I use the little phrase contention and connection, and you know what that made me think about Erin.
Speaker 2:Our book Stephen Mitchell, that's right.
Speaker 1:It made me think about our book. Too Tired to Fight. It's coming out, everyone. It is coming out July 9th of 2024. But you know what? Hey, if you're like, I really want to check it out. I actually want to go ahead and purchase that book before it's on sale in a bookstore. You know what, hey, if you're like, I really want to check it out. I actually want to go ahead and purchase that book before it's on sale in a bookstore. You know what? Just hop on over to Amazon, amazoncom, type in too tired to fight. Go to our website couplescounselingforparentscom. Click on the tab that says book and guess what you can do? You can pre-order that book today.
Speaker 2:It can be yours. You can pre-order that book anywhere you buy your books.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right, it is coming closer. Should I name the places? Hudson's Target Books, a Million Barnes Noble.
Speaker 2:I am genuinely excited. Amazon, the deadline is feeling, or the release date deadline, whatever is feeling closer and closer, and that is Because it is Right. Cl. Right, it just feels that way. Um, but that I think when you first started talking about the book. I'm genuinely excited. This book is really good.
Speaker 1:We've worked really hard on it.
Speaker 2:We know it's going to be really helpful, um, but it felt really far away, like july. There are so many things I have to get through to get to july but at this point, like like July, feels just around the corner.
Speaker 1:Because it is no it feels that way.
Speaker 2:So yes, and it really is helpful. I know we've said it a hundred times. Yes, we will probably say it a hundred times still.
Speaker 1:It is about helping you and your partner move from conflict to connection and the whole premise of the book being like conflict is actually an opportunity for you and your partner to connect, to understand yourself and to understand one another. And we're using kind of the 13 most common conflicts that in our experience, we find that we are talking to couples about Over and over and over, yes, as their parents, specifically in the context of parenting.
Speaker 1:But it's beneficial to you even if that's not your context and using those um 13 common, essential conflicts um to highlight this process of how you can move from conflict to connection. So really practical, really helpful. We share a little bit about our lives and our story in the midst of that, because we've only we've had I think we had like three of these 13 conflicts before, just three of them.
Speaker 2:This morning, yeah, the other 10 yesterday, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're really excited about it. If you appreciate what we do and you've benefited from this podcast or any of our content, we would love for you to show your appreciation by pre-ordering that book.
Speaker 2:Yes, it does matter yeah yeah, yeah, and then I think it's an actual natural sequencing into today's topic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we were.
Speaker 2:Wait, I just want to start it with. I think the core thing is do you love me, do you want me or do you need me? Well, those types of questions.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so we were having this conversation in our kitchen yesterday, I think, um, and you brought it up, aaron, like how did I bring it? Up. Let's kind of like rehash that conversation a little bit.
Speaker 2:So I would say that over the past month I'm going to say in one way or another, either in our couple sessions, where we're sitting together with a couple, or when I'm sitting with a client. Or even in our own personal life, in our own personal life, in our own personal life.
Speaker 1:Because, hey, Erin and I celebrated 16 years of wedded bliss.
Speaker 2:Wedded conflict to connection.
Speaker 1:Wedded conflict to connection. That's right. This month, this month and I think, in reflecting about our relationship and our anniversary. We had some really actually tough days leading up to our anniversary and this kind of conversation was at the core of it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes. So, and I think that's what I was saying, I had just been saying like man, no one is saying. Well, you know, this is not like anyone's direct quote, but essentially what so many people are feeling right now is this like the way that you express love for me, and that is, if people can identify it that, like you know me, I don't always see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this is one partner saying about their partner.
Speaker 2:Doesn't feel like love to me. I just I don't feel loved and I do and I don't, but like I want to feel loved.
Speaker 1:And I think that there's oftentimes this distinction, like I know my partner loves me, but I don't feel like we love each other.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure it would be love each other.
Speaker 1:Or I don't feel loved by my partner.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think that that is different. So what we're going to, then, where our conversation went from this point, was man, our attachment styles really can mess connection up or really be the path to that deeper understanding, some compassion, some kindness some curiosity, ultimately connection for couples.
Speaker 1:So let's give a little example of how this might shake out. So we'll just take ourselves, for example. Me too. Okay, do you want to do it? Were you like oh, he's not going to do it the way. Why don't you't you? You know what, aaron, why don't you? Okay, why don't you lead us into this one?
Speaker 2:so I would say um nine months out of ten months. I think that we're doing great, we're plugging along, we're a team. I feel like we make that sweet eye contact in a day where it's like can you believe it?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:This is our life, these are our kids, this is what we do. And then something stressful happens, some sort of added additional.
Speaker 1:Can I just ask a clarifying point? You said nine out of 10 months.
Speaker 2:You mean because there's 12? Yeah, I was going to say nine out of 10 times, but I just chose months, okay.
Speaker 1:So should we just say nine out of twelve months, then, just because nine out of ten, it just sort of is like well, what happened to?
Speaker 2:the other two just say hey hey guys, hey, okay, I'm over here, don't forget about me I december, I wouldn't have forgotten that one, okay, so uh, nine out of twelve months well, I'm not even sure about that fraction anymore, but my point is largely I think we're doing well and we're moving and it feels good and then a stressful context, a really stressful month. For a lot of couples, may is a very stressful month. That is true for us as well. All these end of year like school year things- yeah bombard um bombard and stress takes over, which means regulation styles take over. Do you want to have a nerd moment and explain?
Speaker 1:No, I just think what you're saying is we become stressed and our coping strategies kick in, and oftentimes I guess I will have a little bit of a nerve moment. It's easy to think about it in these two ways. There's generally two ways that people regulate and try to cope with stress. Some people go internal and they cope with their stress by just kind of thinking about things, not saying much. I'm going to work it out. Inside, they kind of withdraw into themselves. There's others who cope with their stress by being external. They want to talk about it with someone. They want to talk about the stress. They might even become very kind of active and paying attention to how everyone else is doing. They're feeling stressed, but they're like, is anybody else out there feeling stressed? And so it can feel like their attention is very externally focused rather than internally focused. And so sometimes what that can look like is one partner withdrawing and it can feel like the other partner is being hyper attuned or hyper engaged with something their kids, their partner, whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:I would say over-functioning. Over-functioning, yes, because I think that again, these are generalizations and not everybody looks one exact way. I don't really love to just chat about stress, Sure no, no. And some people do. That's not bad.
Speaker 1:But you definitely are looking like hey, I'm feeling stressed. Can we spend some time together, or can we have some moments of connection so that I know that we're together in the stress, whereas I think the internal person is like Okay.
Speaker 2:So I think this is exactly the conversation, right, because that's what it seems like to you.
Speaker 1:Right, right right.
Speaker 2:What it seems like to me is could you engage, Could you stop withdrawing so that I don't have to over-function?
Speaker 1:And I think that that's the dichotomy where couples get stuck.
Speaker 2:I say, Stephen, if you would engage in your presence.
Speaker 1:I'm the internal regulator in our dynamic Erin's, the external regulator.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and then I wouldn't have to be over-functioning. And Steven is not the guy who's withdrawn and not active, so I think that's the other thing. Sometimes people say, like I'm doing a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I hear-.
Speaker 2:I'm not withdrawn.
Speaker 1:So Aaron says you're disengaged, You're withdrawn, and I'm like, are you kidding me? Like I am thinking about the 8,000 things that have to be done for our family to function, for our business to work, for our finances to be in order, for our soccer tournaments.
Speaker 2:for our soccer tournaments to be in order, Because Steven gets all those emails.
Speaker 1:I'm coordinating our work schedule. I'm coordinating all the you know all the stuff that we do a podcast, instagram, a membership, a website. I am doing a ton, not to mention trying to be present at home and keep a house clean and fold laundry and make some meals and that kind of stuff. So I'm thinking I am not withdrawn is how it feels to me and it's like-.
Speaker 2:Because you are not inactive, right, sometimes withdrawn is inactive. Sometimes withdrawn is very active, but there's no-.
Speaker 1:There's no. That's the difference between there's not that engagement.
Speaker 2:Engagement. That's what I was going to say too.
Speaker 1:Which I think is that feeling of togetherness, that feeling of connection, that feeling of, like you're saying, of if I know that you're with me, I don't feel like I have to over-function.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:What was over-functioning look like for you.
Speaker 2:So I exactly so, because I think the way that it feels so like the withdrawn person seems withdrawn and totally checked out, even though they're doing a bunch of stuff. I think you'll have to correct me if I'm getting this wrong, but to you that external person looks like they want to sit and talk yeah, in the midst and stress what aaron would like is for us to hold hands yeah on the couch and sit down and have a real sweet moment and I'm like, and for me to do all the practical stuff while they don't just feel really safe and loved.
Speaker 2:And I'm like in what world do you feel like? I'm like let's have a little sit down moment. Like that's, but I get that.
Speaker 2:That's what it feels like the ask is like hey, stop doing stuff, Be with me, um, but what it? What I'm wanting, and may not be expressing perfect well, certainly I'm not expressing perfectly, but that internal thing is we have a lot to get through in the next I'm just going to go back to May 1st and this next month we have I don't know how many soccer tournaments and games, but I don't know how many deadlines. I don't know all these things. What if wild idea here, stephen? But what if we did it like together?
Speaker 2:Right we didn't just like drag each other through this month and just like hope to make it.
Speaker 1:To the finish line. We just got to get through all this stuff and then we can connect, Then we can.
Speaker 2:Then I can kind of like Well then, I'll remember that you're here, that you live here, and that we Right right.
Speaker 1:So oftentimes my strategy is like, hey, let's just get through this side by side, but not paying attention to each other.
Speaker 2:And one of the other primary and I would say first areas where I think couples really start to feel this is in postpartum, where I think, most couples readily admit. This next 18 months is going to be tough on our marriage because there's a lot of new context and we've got to focus on this human and making sure they're doing their best. You're an adult, I'm an adult. Let's just get there.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But the way couples want to do that is very often not the same. I think literally. I think a direct quote from you is like let's just make it to 18 months.
Speaker 1:Like, I think, a direct.
Speaker 2:Quote from you is like let's just make it to 18 months, like I'll see you when we get there Like let's get there. Do we really have to belabor?
Speaker 1:every day and check in and talk, because, for me, when I am stressed and overwhelmed, I become very reductionistic and task-oriented, because the level of organization and control helps me feel at ease. And so what happens is I'm just like let's just do all the tasks, because that's going to help me feel better.
Speaker 2:That doesn't look relational, but I think at the end of that sentence is let's do the tasks.
Speaker 1:So I feel better and we can connect, and then I have space to connect with you and not be overwhelmed, stressed about the 10 things left to do, so yeah, Aaron we could have a hug, but at the end of it, I'm still going to have to fold laundry, I'm still going to have to whatever clean up dinner.
Speaker 2:Which, to be clear, me too. I'm just like but couldn't we like each other once we get there and I think that's the other person um the me in this scenario, like in postpartum or in may, um, whatever your context is but like, yeah, I'm, I'm planning on getting to the finish line too. I was just hoping that once we arrive there, we don't just like each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly that we don't feel rough and ragged and, um, I think a thing people sometimes feel is like the Steven regulators, which a lot of people say is like oh, that's men, that's just how men are.
Speaker 1:And that's not true, One that's not how men are.
Speaker 2:And two, that is not the only type of person that regulates that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's plenty of people who identify as women are internal regulators too.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, but they feel like they are having to drag this other person. Like come on, we've got to get there, we've got things to do.
Speaker 1:There are things to do.
Speaker 2:No, I can't hold your hand to get there. And then there's the people like me, these external regulators, that are like I don't need my handheld. I've been functioning In fact over-functioning in this world for quite some time. I'm very capable of getting to a finish line, and I think that's the mischaracterization on our side is. But what if we didn't hate each other when we got there? And I think that's where it can feel like Stephen feels like I'm not trying to hate you, I don't want to feel hated by you either.
Speaker 2:And I'm like I don't need to be handheld and hugged to get to a finish.
Speaker 1:Well and then. So how this comes out in the question of like do you love me?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Is is, is that very thing. When you feel like your, your regulation styles are competing, so if Aaron's like, so, if we're going to get to the finish line and it's going to, we're going to end up not liking each other, like that makes me feel like you don't love me or care about me or interested in me or interested in connecting with me along the way that feels unloving. I think is what you would, or what you have said.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think that where the conflict here is, but like how this doesn't work, is I feel like I'm a um, a task on your list.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like task one make sure Aaron feels greeted, because she likes to feel greeted in the morning.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:Um, you know. And then a midday, don't forget to check in with Aaron. How's the day? Thinking of you you know like, and that doesn't feel connected, that feels like oh you're, it's just a task.
Speaker 1:That's, and then opposite. And then I think opposite. For me, where I feel unloved and I think some of it just comes from the misunderstanding of the fact like I I it's hard for me to describe in some ways, but I think I've tried like how stressed I can get, like like when I'm, when I'm overwhelmed to be very clear is not to.
Speaker 2:Stephen is not saying more stressed than me.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, yeah, yeah, not more stressed. But when we're in these stressful moments, the way stress feels to me is it feels so chaotic, it feels so overwhelming, like a flood of things, that I really am comforted and relieved by clearing the space, by accomplishing the task, by moving through the things that have to be done, because I'm not making up what has to be done. All of this stuff has to be done. It's not a fake thing. But I think that where I feel misunderstood is when I feel like I'm being told like all you care about is task, all you. You don't care about people, you're just. You know you're being selfish, you just want to. You know when, in reality, I'm like can you not see how like overwhelmed and lonely and scared and just anxious I feel in this moment of life? Can you not help me by helping me accomplish some of these things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, by getting on board and doing the tasks.
Speaker 1:And that's what can feel like oh, you don't care, you don't understand me, you don't love me, you just need me to do what you need in this moment, and I think that that's how it can get also competing Like both partners are like oh so we just need to sort of acquiesce to how you cope in this moment and forget how what I feel or what I need and and that's what begins to feel like I don't even know if you love me.
Speaker 1:Do you love me, like in in the reality is is you've got to try to balance those things.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's what you're sorry. No so the, the, those are some of the typical conflict points, the hurt points that like, very, very vulnerably, lonely, like, will you ever accept me?
Speaker 1:I would say is a fair word for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Will you accept that, like this is part of who I am and how things go?
Speaker 2:And I think very often, and your words will almost certainly be different, they don't need to be the same, but like it is important to know what your word is Like. Will you ever blank me? But I do think the external regulators land more in the like it wouldn't. It shouldn't, in fact, it shouldn't be so hard to love me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think it starts with like whatever, but I think that it's the like. I don't feel like it's a big ask why am I a task Like?
Speaker 1:why is it such a task To love me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like I'm not asking for all these horrible things. You make it seem like I'm wanting. I'm not trying to stop. I also know there's a big list. I just like, oh, like you, just like being excited, we're in this together. That's too much to ask, forget it. And it usually does turn pretty angry. The sadness is fleeting, the anger is intense. I stop there's walls. I'm not going to just sit around waiting for you to love me.
Speaker 1:I'm not that desperate a person. Well, and I think how that comes out is oftentimes, as we've described, that internal regulating, that kind of let's just get to the finish line and then I'll love you. Right, right yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean I hate, yes, I mean I think that I hate to say that, I think that sometimes and it's not that you don't love me, and then I'll show you I love you. Right, right, demonstrate.
Speaker 1:We'll have time and space for all that feely stuff. What that looks like oftentimes is the withdrawal, and the withdrawal can just simply be again, as we've said, not inactivity.
Speaker 2:It can be, though it can be like your best friend. Is your phone now and anything to keep you from feeling that overwhelm you were describing earlier.
Speaker 1:Yes, but it can definitely. It's a little more quiet, maybe it's a little more again. Just you're doing things and oftentimes what we find is that the external regulator kind of tries to drop some hints, tries to be like hey, hey, like you know, I would say even direct Could you engage. Hey, you seem a little distracted. Hey, how about? And they do that and there's lack of response.
Speaker 2:And then they do that, they do that, they do that, they do that.
Speaker 1:And then they get angry and they express it in a really big way, and then that internal regulator will withdraw even more or they'll because they've been kind of avoiding things. They might respond in a really big, angry way as well, kind of like well, I'm the only one around here doing all this stuff, what do you mean? I'm not doing anything. And then they have a list of all the stuff that they've done and all the hours they worked that day, or I deserve phone time everybody needs to check out.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to decompress. I thought you didn't want me stressed. I thought you'd you know. Yeah, and so then you're, you're, you're kind of in a back and forth, um argument, conflict fighting right everybody's least favorite place to be um, so I can't remember the the name of the instagram page um the secure relationship or yeah, I think it's a secure relationship she has this image that I have used. We use it with our clients. We've used it with each other where it's um. Do you want to describe it?
Speaker 2:no, you go ahead okay, where it's two plants, um, and the relationship is the plant and the. For the internal person the, the plant or the person taking care of this plant, which is the relationship says you have sun and you have soil grow, and the external person says yeah, I'm, I'm not um and I will. I will water us with gasoline to get the growth we need, and I think obviously those are the extreme.
Speaker 1:But if you will not respond, yeah, I mean so the sun and soil looks like this for me. We're there and I'm like look, we've got a lot going on. You know I love you. Yeah, I'm here, let's just get to this and then things will be okay. That's what sun and soil looks like. You got like we're adults, we gotta be adults. Let's just do this. And then I think the gasoline looks like that moment where you felt like you've tried to say again and again, and again, and again, and then it's something about along the lines of you are always and we never.
Speaker 2:And it gets to those very big, flooded feelings of we're broken, we're too broken and you're always this way and you don't love me, you don't care about me, you regret our family.
Speaker 1:And it can be a little thing that sets it off and that's what's confusing. So I'm thinking we had this interaction happen, so we first of all found the wonder and usefulness of those like massage guns, the Thera gun, massage thing.
Speaker 1:So I mean so great use, a very useful um uh tool. But we, we had just, we had just gotten one Um and I had was opening the, you know the package or whatever, and um and I and I took the, took the gun, and the first thing I did is I turned it on and I, you know kind of put it on my, on my calf to, you know, massage my calf first. Now, aaron and I had been in one of these places in our relationship where I was very focused, I was very stressed, I was focused on the task. She had been feeling like she had been dropping hints. We're in that moment and right when I went to use the Theragun on my calf, erin had come over and she said oh yeah, why don't you go ahead? Why don't you go ahead and go first and see? You know what this Theragun's like?
Speaker 2:Now to be very, very clear, because I think that this is a very relatable moment. I think, well, it is is all three of our children were wanting to open the box. All three of our children were wanting to go first. Everyone was like can I see it?
Speaker 1:And for.
Speaker 2:Stephen to get it out and use it on his own leg where all three of our children are between us. I'm like perfect. That's exactly what you'd do. You'd be, like dads, go first, little people.
Speaker 1:It ignited the fire. And to me, without the context, I'm like is our marriage seriously about to be over because of a theragun like and?
Speaker 2:I'm like? Absolutely not our. Our marriage is about to be over because you take care of you yes, yeah, and and so this I don't worry, I'll tend to all the feelings of our children while you get your plantar fasciitis worked out.
Speaker 1:Well, that was not. I mean, that was on my foot, I used it on my calf first.
Speaker 2:I thought that was to release the foot. No, it's not.
Speaker 1:What do I know, Anyway? So that happens so, and usually these little moments, these are the moments that highlight this pattern that's been happening. And it feels random, and it feels like because? Then I look at Aaron, I'm like why do you always overreact to little things? Why does this have to be a thing? And Aaron's like are you the most clueless human being that has ever walked the face of the earth? I've been telling you for weeks that this has been happening and I think that that's-.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. The mischaracterization is immediate and it's strong, and I think you probably wouldn't have even said that. I think you're just like shut it down.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:I'm not wasting the rest of this day arguing about the Theragun. Yeah, I'm not doing it, rest of this day arguing about the Theragun? Yeah, I'm not doing it, so it's a no. That did not ultimately happen, but the reason it didn't is because we do understand this dynamic. It is the very, very reason that you have to understand.
Speaker 1:But also notice what we didn't say is, even though we do understand this dynamic, it didn't keep the conflict from happening Like this isn't understand the dynamic and this never happens. It's understand the dynamic because this is going to happen all the time.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:And there needs to be a way to talk about it. I think. For sure 9 out of 12,. 9 out of 12 months.
Speaker 2:Well, I think all the time. So what we sell every-.
Speaker 1:Okay, all the time maybe is-.
Speaker 2:When stress wins. So, depending on what the stressors are in your life, or the things that are very activating for you, or the things for us, or we know, it's like our top three have been our top three for 17 years and they probably will be for the rest of forever, and probably that's true the rest of forever. Um, and probably that's true with you as the top three stressors. Yeah, like they just are Um and so when those come up, because you and I can handle stress about a lot of stuff like we don't mind.
Speaker 2:you know, navigating a trip, we've moved a bajillion times and that typically doesn't create that Like there's a lot of things that like we're like oh yeah, that's not the stress that really hits us in our core spots of do you love me, um, but so it's important. It's important to know those. But what we tell every couple we work with and if any of you are listening and we haven't told you if this is me telling you, but I think, intensity, duration and frequency.
Speaker 2:Like doing this kind of couple's work, you are going to have these these issues come up from time to time, but ideally it would not be so intense like that yeah, the theragun incident was pretty low, we managed it. Yeah, it was it was so annoying and we were mad it was really hurt. But it wasn't an 11 hurt, it was a four and a half hurt or something. And then the frequency, Like how often are we having these type of ruptures?
Speaker 1:Not that often Three times out of 12.
Speaker 2:I knew it, I knew you would do it. And then the duration, like so how long does a Theragun interaction?
Speaker 1:disrupt the relationship.
Speaker 2:So is it like? Are we talking like this is the rest of our week now, so now I don't like you until something good happens next weekend? Are we talking like we're going to work this out before dinner, like oh great Well, and that's what we're working towards is reducing intensity, duration and frequency. And you can, you really can.
Speaker 1:And that's what knowing these patterns and dynamics and how you operate in them, how. I think it's important to know, first of all, how you operate. Are you an internal or external regulator? Also then thinking about why it's important to you, like how that helps you cope with your stress, but then also thinking about how that is experienced and felt by your partner, so that when they say something about it, you can understand it and actually you can skip the defensiveness and skip the kind of reactivity to like you know. So, aaron, you know, if she's like, oh, you're so withdrawn or all yours task oriented, I can have a filter that says you know what, when she's saying that, what she's saying is I'm locked in my stress response and I'm missing her experience. Now, granted, aaron, you know, hopefully can also access different language to let me know that.
Speaker 2:But yes, but if I don't, then hopefully, when I hear that very, very, very all or nothing thinking come out, I'm like wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm completely missing this very, very middle ground of that's annoying. Are you kidding me, but not like that's because you're a bad person, right, right, right.
Speaker 1:And so, and so I think in this way, like understanding this dynamic, these dynamics you can communicate to your partner I love you and I care about you in the midst of stress, in the midst of conflict, if you know what the cycle is, and I think that-.
Speaker 2:Because you can be very responsible. For your own part, I'm not proud that it comes out as fire when I'm hurt. I wish I could say I'm really feeling disconnected. Yeah, I wish we could, and I feel like I am Stephen's, always like you, feel like you're being a much better communicator than you are.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Because it's really hard for you to listen in those moments. That's how much you're trying not to feel and not to be present to your feelings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think for me, like personally, I think I am becoming more and more and more and more aware of how it hurts for you to hear me say hey, you have sun and soil.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we just got to get there, and then I'll water you.
Speaker 1:Good enough, like it's taken 16 years. But I'm kind of like man, that would really hurt and I can be aware it doesn't mean that I don't do that, but I can be aware that when I do like, oh, that's not what I want to communicate, and I also know that you are going to try to water the plant with gasoline and so I can express I don't like that, I can express the impact of that on me, but at the same time it allows me to not take it so personally when it happens.
Speaker 2:And the opposite is 100% true. I am growing and growing and growing in my recognition that when I resort to the gasoline, that it directly communicates, I don't accept you. Yeah, period, and there's really no nuance and I don't ever want that. So I'm like oh, I see that, Um, and I hate that that is still how it is expressed Sometimes. I also have a lot of compassion for why it has developed that way in me. Yeah, um, which doesn't mean I'm like.
Speaker 1:so I accept it and like we just have to get used to this. Is that I hey?
Speaker 2:this is just the way I am, that's not what I mean at all, but I do get how I came to do that that way. I'm continuing to work on it. But, yeah, there's both. And for you as well, I get how you developed into those emotions being so intense that you do try to minimize them and just work your way through them, like, oh, I see that I hate the fallout from both of those, but I get how we got to be here. Yeah, because that's where repair happens.
Speaker 1:There's real repair there. And I think in that process, in the process of understanding these things about yourself and understanding them about your partner, moving through the conflict when it does come is the very thing that then helps you walk away from that experience with the affirmation my partner does accept me, my partner does love me, and so conflict doesn't have to result in this feeling. You know, being stressed doesn't have to result in this feeling of does my partner love me? Do they accept me? I don't know. There's actually a way to receive the affirmative answer that you're really looking for. Today's show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples, counseling for Parents, and remember, working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.