Sometimes being in a couple relationship and being parents just feels so hard!! Why does parenting introduce a new level of hard into couple relationships. Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP tell you why.
Sometimes being in a couple relationship and being parents just feels so hard!! Why does parenting introduce a new level of hard into couple relationships. Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP tell you why.
Hello and welcome Mrs Couples.
Speaker 2:Counseling for Parents A show about couple relationships how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken.
Speaker 1:Hiya parents Our Dad Dr Steven Mitchell and our Mom Erin Mitchell.
Speaker 2:Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Steven Mitchell.
Speaker 1:I'm Erin Mitchell.
Speaker 2:And on today's show we're going to talk about I don't know, something I've been thinking about If I think about it. So I we've been working with couples for years, a while now haven't we, yes, and we've talked to a lot of different couples. We hear a lot of like really encouraging stories, but also some really like hard stories.
Speaker 1:Those are not always different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the good stories, the hard stories can become the good stories. I like that, it's real, it's true. But I think one of the things sometimes like when I, you know, look back at you know all the people we've interacted with, sometimes I find myself asking the question man, why does this period of a couple's development together feel so hard?
Speaker 1:Which period.
Speaker 2:Well, this, this stage of their life where they're kind of trying to have kids coming into being parents building their family, kind of that, I guess the early, the early stage of being parenting partners.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Is that what you? What are you thinking?
Speaker 1:No, I think I well. I just wanted to know what stage you were talking about. I mean, to be perfectly honest, I think that is something that we tend to focus on.
Speaker 2:A lot of the couples we talk to are in that stage Kind of early, like what I would say zero to five.
Speaker 1:Zero to five At least one kid there, even if some of the other ones are older. But I do think that the difficulties can persist.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:It's difficult in different ways, but there's an intensity to that stage that is different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I guess maybe I see what you're saying. Like I'm not trying to like quantify, like this early stage is harder than you know teen or what. Maybe I'm just I see what you're saying Just parent, like couples who are parents, things get intense, hard. I don't mean bad, but it just, it just creates a lot of I don't know miscommunication, a lot of feelings where partners are like you don't get me. Yeah, I just think it can feel hard.
Speaker 1:So I think one of the ways if I'm thinking about it just as you're even talking that it is different. I think in the zero to five again, rough, loose categories here but, zero to five couples are trying to figure out if they can work those things out. What? Things, whatever intense things, are coming up for them, which I think, is what we're going to talk about, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, and I think they hit a level of intensity maybe in their couple relationship that they've never experienced. So I think for I disagree- I think they're experiencing it in a different way.
Speaker 1:I don't.
Speaker 2:Sure, I mean Very intense things happen. Okay, okay, all right, yes, I got you, I got you.
Speaker 1:But I mean before kids and then. But it is different. The intensity is different once you have kids, for a lot of reasons. But my previous point, though, is to finish. That one is I think couples in that zero to five stage are trying to figure out, like they're trying to figure it out whatever those things are, and they either decide we can Right.
Speaker 2:And we can continue to have productive conflict or they decide they can't and they either completely separate, like actually or or they just push through and kind of grind it out in a sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and either avoid Now we brush conflict on the rug cause it's pointless and I don't want to have a conflict written home, or it's really intense all the time and there's a lot of fighting and it doesn't feel productive and it feels, you know, either higher, no conflict, or neither one ideal.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Conflict with resolution is what we're talking about, and so I think that can be different. That is why that time cause you're like can we do this? Right, right Are we doing this, can we do this? And then you kind of have to make a decision Nope, so we just avoid, or what?
Speaker 2:Well, maybe. So this is how I'm thinking about it. See, if this is what you were saying, this is how it comes together in my mind.
Speaker 2:These early years can set the stage for the quality of the relationship, like moving into the future. So, for example, if it's stressful and you're trying to figure out how do we be a couple in the midst of you know just a whole new context, and you feel like you figure it out. You feel like not that you don't ever have any problems, but you're like we know how to do this together as a couple, where we can have conflict and we can still feel connected and we can do hard things and we can experience stress and we can be good together. If that's kind of your conclusion in those earlier phases, that really sets your relationship up for hopefully, some goodness for the rest of your time together, whereas if you don't, what happens is you kind of get in stuck places and your relationship actually just gets stuck and you might progress together still, but you're progressing together with sort of the negative patterns and the hard feelings and the resentment and those kinds of things and so the future?
Speaker 1:Well, that's when you hear the things about like roommates. You know like we're at best we're roommates. We're just thankful that we operate fairly. You know good as co-parents.
Speaker 2:Or I mean honestly. I mean there's, you know we've seen it a lot. But also there is, you know, studies have been done, like oftentimes when all the kids leave.
Speaker 1:Or are about to. I was thinking that too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you are about to, because those are the rush ups, late high school and, yeah, things split up.
Speaker 1:Well, guess why now we were doing this for them and now they're gone, and now it's, and that is very disorienting for kids especially.
Speaker 2:And so then the question is like okay, so like what are? Like, what's going on, you know, like I was thinking about this the other day, like what kind of creates the level of intensity between parenting partners in this early, early stage? Like, why does it, why do things feel so crucial and vital and important? Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Is like I think so.
Speaker 2:I keep trying to judge how you're looking at me, and you're looking at me with confusion and part of me feels like it's cause I'm asking a bad question, or you're just like I don't really know what he's talking about. Which which direction is it? Do you hear bad questions? You don't know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:I can tell you right now what my face is.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, If y'all could see your face, it's it, it would.
Speaker 1:We're going to need to start posting these on YouTube so we can hear.
Speaker 2:It would cause you to feel unsettled. I feel unsettled right now. Is there anything you want, you know? Okay, it's my turn, all right. So one of the things I was thinking about why it feels so intense is because I think that oftentimes, when you become a parent, you are working hard to either replicate your caregiving experience, because you valued it so much and you thought it was so wonderful, or change your caregiving experience through, like how you care for your kid, because you didn't want that.
Speaker 1:Intentionally are you suggesting people know that they're making that decision?
Speaker 2:I think most of it is not in our awareness.
Speaker 1:Okay, then I'm with you, I agree, yeah okay, all right, Her face has changed.
Speaker 2:She's nodding, she's affirming, she's tracking with where I'm going. I'm being more clear. So I think that that's one of the things, because I think the intensity is I want so badly to give my kids what I had, or I want so badly to change for my kids what I experienced.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I think the way that I would say that for myself and my own experience, which I think is just a restating what you're saying- but for myself is I want my kids to have the best I want them to. I want to give them every opportunity I loved and none of the opportunities that caused me harm.
Speaker 2:I think that's what you're saying.
Speaker 1:But I have felt, very aware of that, like I would give my kids anything that I could, and I think that what is sometimes missing or is that sort of like a couple layers or very, very many layers below that yes is not knowing where that is coming from, and I think that gets partners into trouble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just feeling some level of, I really think, sometimes like panic or fear, or just so much energy around. I want this so badly, but you're not really sure why, why it matters so much. I think because I think that so like, if I think about us, so I would say like I had a caregiving experience that I'm kind of like I'd like to not replicate that. I want to change that and I feel really passionate about that. I really want that to be the case. I think for you. You probably have a little bit of that too, but also there's more parts for you where you're like there's a lot that I do wanna replicate about my caregiving experience. Yeah, certainly. And so Aaron and I we come into a relationship and we don't really like we know we want the best right, we want the best for each other and we want the best for our kids. And then you think, and we're on the same page about that.
Speaker 1:And the thing is is Because we for sure must agree what the best is.
Speaker 2:Right, right, your desire is the best. But then you start parenting and it's like, oh, wait a second, you're not approaching getting at the best the same way I am. And then it begins to be like oh, maybe you don't want what I want, oh, maybe I can't believe you're saying that or doing that with our kids. Like who are you?
Speaker 1:And then it begins to feel very Desperate, I think sometimes yes, I wouldn't have used the word desperate, but that I get that. I think what I was going to say is critical. I Say more well, and maybe that's just maybe you have felt desperate and I felt critical.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think I felt that I mean but critical, I think credit critical matches for me too. I like I would.
Speaker 1:I would say that I think I don't think I notice, I don't think I'm aware like, oh, I wish Steven wasn't doing that, because that doesn't feel aligned with how I had envisioned my golfer. I'm just like stop doing that. It's bad. Don't you see their faces, don't?
Speaker 2:well, I think, another little extra layer just for me and you is, so you know we both have these advanced degrees and. You know psychology, and so we not. Only is it that we have these just experiential ideas about what we think parenting should be, we both have, you know, like well, I haven't had, I haven't education, and why I know, and we're both a little bit Opinionated and stubborn.
Speaker 1:I would say we both are strong-willed and have firm back. Great reframe but I also. I don't think we've ever used our educations at each other.
Speaker 2:I think for the most part of the patients have been aligned, sure you? Do feel very strongly about what we feel very Right within that and it's like you know, you know to achieve this kind of experience like, and you know we we need to do this. I was sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1:I was talking with a friend at our kids soccer practice this week and they were making the comment about couples.
Speaker 2:You know, people are always asking what we do and yeah, things we talk about and they're always like, oh are you are you judging us and you know we're like always. Yeah, I wrote up some notes. I'd like to send you and your partner home with them, you know, review them and let me know what you think.
Speaker 1:I mean, it happens all the time it does, and it almost never happens, and honestly, we don't do that, because that's all I mean. I just want to hang out.
Speaker 1:I don't want to think about that stuff if I don't have to so this person was asking about what we did you know what, anything we've talked about, you know whatever. And she said that they had gone to counseling at one point and she said the most valuable take away she had from her entire experience is this therapist telling them that they're imagine that there was a number between them. And then she a 12. No, they didn't get to fix it before I. Know you're gonna say one more thing. I Okay six.
Speaker 2:Yes, so she said Okay, you just affirmed it and just shut me down. Yes, a six, steven. Thank you.
Speaker 1:No, it is.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought you're just like your child.
Speaker 1:No, um, yes, and then she said but imagine it between the two of you. And then she was like and then so, aaron and Steven's Aaron, you're looking at a six right, yes, so Steven, what does that mean?
Speaker 2:You're looking at it's between us, oh, man, I feel like I'm gonna give the wrong answer.
Speaker 1:Six and nine oh because of the direction. Yeah, okay, yeah, and she said y'all can sit there and fight, and fight, and fight and fight about what the number actually is, but the thing is, you've got different perspectives, right. You're looking at you're both right, You're you're not one wrong and you can. You cannot convince the other one that they're wrong because they're right and the point Is not to convince the other.
Speaker 2:Well, the point is that you have to. Effort is exhausting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're already exhausted, which we are right.
Speaker 2:I am exhausted every day.
Speaker 1:I.
Speaker 2:Just.
Speaker 1:You don't? I mean that is just such a waste of.
Speaker 2:Your energy and connection. Yeah just the like and I think well, that's oppositional Right, like, even like, if you're looking at that and and if your thought is like, I need you to have my perspective and that's just not gonna happen, like that's not a connective feeling, just period right.
Speaker 1:So, and I think a lot of times now here's the thing I am not trying to say that parenting is one of those situations where it doesn't mean like you have to agree that this philosophy your partner has, that you firmly do not agree with, has to be like, well, we just let them do it their way, like that's not the case. But we do approach these things with our own perspective, our own story, our own histories of I liked this, I didn't like that. And then I think where it gets really thorny is Fair or not. I have a perspective on Steven's upbringing. I have heard stories, I have even experienced him with some of his care Well, all of them, I guess, yeah, with your family, and and it impacts me- if you can't tell Aaron's perspective, is this very positive?
Speaker 2:There are positive things.
Speaker 1:And I think you would say the same that you are deeply impacted by my caregiving experience sure, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Because we are, and so I am not neutral about Some of the stories I know yeah, because you might see me and I might do something that is reminiscent of what you have seen.
Speaker 2:One of my caregivers do and even maybe heard me say like I didn't really like that, but I'm doing it, I'm repeating, and you're like no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that, that's not in line with what is the best for our kid, for our kids, and that really activates a ton of energy, and Go ahead well, I think that energy is what can be the block between us then, because typically how that comes out for me is Criticism yes is saying don't do that.
Speaker 1:You didn't like it. When your parents do that to you, why on earth would you do that to our kids? Rather than saying whoa. I felt like that was something you didn't really appreciate. Are you aware of it?
Speaker 2:right.
Speaker 1:That's what just happened, because it really looked like that to me. What did it feel like for you? That Curiosity and compassion goes straight out the window. I see my kids looking threatened whether or not they are because I have made that mistake a few times, just like once or twice where I'm like they didn't like that and then later like they're like oh, I didn't notice, or I didn't like, yeah, you know, dad just seemed like in a bad mood.
Speaker 1:I'm like, well, it bothered me, didn't bother me like, oh, but, but when I do, I mean we have both come at our kids in ways we are not proud of, would not do it again?
Speaker 2:and when I sense that you become a threat to me, because you are a threat to my kids and I will and the same for me, like if I sense you interacting with them in a way that I just am like that is not the best, that's not creating the you know the kind of feeling or relationship, and it's interesting. I would say we want, which I do think we want, but really it's like that I want for them, like because it's coming out of my story yeah it's very like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:And it can become very critical and yeah, it just then it pits you against each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then kids go to sleep and now you're still a threat to me, I'm still a threat to you. We've got this cast in between us and it's like say you were wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you're gonna argue the finer points and you don't really say that or maybe you do.
Speaker 1:I mean, we've never actually said say you were wrong, right, but it's like hey.
Speaker 2:I need you to hear from you why. I need you to tell me why you know you were wrong from what you just did and you're like what.
Speaker 2:Like, and then you can get all defensive, and so I think that I think that there's like I kind of see it as a multiple steps in a sense.
Speaker 2:I think first of all, partners have to recognize that and I love what you just said. Like every parent comes to their parenting experience wanting the best for their kid, I think that that's a good fundamental thought generally. We're just gonna generally that is how a parent comes to the endeavor of parenting. Then I think the next step is to think about but you have to be mindful of, based on your caregiving experience as a kid, how that informs what you want in parenting your kids. Because that's the part where we're looking at the six, and it's a six and a nine, where I'm thinking like I want this, this is really important to me. Aaron's thinking I want this, this is really important to me and we think we've agreed on that's the best. And that's where it begins to feel like a tug of war or where you can have these miscommunications and these sort of mis, you know, kind of alignments I would say is that Sure yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I think, from that point, what you have to do is actually then actually have the conversation about what would we consider the best being for our kids, and how do we want to go about doing that? Recognizing that you can't agree on every point, point yes, what do you think?
Speaker 1:I was just thinking.
Speaker 2:She's got that kind of questioning. Look again.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, it is a questioning of self, though. None of you, for once.
Speaker 2:Finally, oh, oh.
Speaker 1:We have talked about this. I have talked about this I'll probably use so many times on this podcast already because they talk about it all the time in life. But in graduate school one of the teacher's assistants wrote on one of my papers like well, in high school I was in an advanced writing class and the professor said Fancy. I was in an English class and the professor wrote, or the teacher at that point wrote.
Speaker 1:Just because you say it, so it doesn't make it so, and I remember being like yes, it does. I don't know what that means and I kind of really did it. And then in graduate school this TA wrote how Can you explain how you came to this? And I think sometimes that is a question that we are genuinely missing in our own selves and of our family, like the how, the how.
Speaker 1:Yes, so like I want what's best, and what's best is for us to be able for our kids to know that they can come to us like with something big hard, exciting hard, sad with anger, that like they can come to us and we will be for them, that we are with them, we are for them and we can hold all of that energy. How Cause, I think?
Speaker 2:we can both be like yeah, yeah, cause I'm like yeah, right on, I'm like, yeah, girl, yeah, that's right, yeah, but how that looks I mean well, because I know us it has been very different.
Speaker 1:Right, and so then I think that how probably leads to at least a few more hows. So, like I would say, one of the ways we could do that is by being very open with our own struggles, like I would say and that was definitely true for me and my mom. So you would say, like how did that come to be a value of yours? Like well, I know that when I was in grade school, like I would come to my mom with some tough stuff, like I'm fighting with my friend about this or I got this grade on that, and my teacher told me that I wasn't. I legitimately failed my capitals test in fifth grade. I didn't study and I came home like I forgot there was a test I just didn't remember and I couldn't remember any of them. Like and my mom would say, like oh my goodness, I remember when that happened to me.
Speaker 1:That doesn't mean you don't know doesn't mean, you never will, doesn't mean.
Speaker 2:Right, right, well, and that's so interesting that that how question for you, because I would say the same thing. I would say, you know, I want our kids to be able to express what's going on for them and to you know, have that experience. And then for me, part of like and you know, and how you build sort of the freedom to do that and strength and all that kind of stuff is, I can jump pretty quickly to like, okay, you've done that and now like, like, how are you gonna shift and how are you gonna kind of move forward and how?
Speaker 1:are you gonna Like, we don't wanna sit in that for too long, you mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And I think that theoretically or fundamentally, we're like, yes, we want our kids to do that, but my caregiving experience was one like you never did that period like not even for like one minute.
Speaker 1:What affirmed your tough experience?
Speaker 2:You never expressed how you were feeling and if it was sad and if it was-.
Speaker 1:Or even happy.
Speaker 2:Or even happy. It was like we don't care, you know, or there's no space here for that, and so I think for me, in my way, I'm like I'm sitting here, it has been seven minutes and I am just man, I'm just really listening and I'm just really creating this space, and now it's time to you know. We need to transition out of this. And yet but I'm thinking I'm doing the best right.
Speaker 1:We are about to have a real life parenting moment, though.
Speaker 2:Like a couple of moments, because I have an experience of that.
Speaker 1:I don't think that's true of you at all. Oh, I think you will sit with our kids for ever.
Speaker 2:I have like seven million still shots what reality have I been living in? I've been just holding them.
Speaker 1:I think one of our kids' core memories, according to me, is that they will feel physically and emotionally held by you, and so I'm like one of you, I mean I can that's interesting yeah.
Speaker 2:But I'm sure but I'm sure there's times that I've done, like I think that there have been, because I'm also remembering moments where I've done what I just described and you being like Easy, hey, mr Sensitive, like what are you doing? Like you're rushing them. So I'm glad, you know, maybe it's a little bit of both, but-.
Speaker 1:But I also think that that's context dependent, right Like, even the how Like, because, again, if I'm being super honest, I think there are-.
Speaker 2:You know, I didn't really want to do this to like talk about me necessarily, so-.
Speaker 1:That's what I use this platform for.
Speaker 2:I have some things I'd like to cover with you. Steven, I'm gonna do it on the podcast.
Speaker 1:But I think we all have different levels of comfort with every single emotion.
Speaker 2:I know where you're going, all of us.
Speaker 1:And so there are, and that is completely dependent until we have done emotional relational work and maybe even still then, based on our experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think there are when our kids are hurt-.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm putty. But when they're excited or joyful, I'm like let's get, let's keep moving. I mean, right, is that what you're Sometimes those are slower or if they're very angry. Ooh, that's right.
Speaker 1:That it's like I hear you, I validate you, and now we have to find the silver lining.
Speaker 2:This is so true. Thank you for covering these things with me. I'm really learning something, I feel like I'm oh, I am.
Speaker 2:But because that is true, like, so in my experience, like the anger was expressed in my family in ways that were not, they were scary, and so anger is very scary, right, and then excitement and joy and kind of enthusiasm Pointless, yeah, it just weren't, you know, it was just sort of. It was always countered with like well, you know what it could all go to, you know what, pretty quickly. So I mean, don't get too excited, like, and so those were really just uncomfortable expressions. But yeah, like, if our like the sadness or the pain or the hurt, I do feel more comfortable with that because I tried to soothe my own soul, probably, again, it's soccer this week different practice, because we have a lot of kids doing a lot of soccer.
Speaker 1:A lot of them, yeah, but I was sitting around which is totally going to show you a little insight into me with all the kids, like all the siblings. It was me and all the siblings sitting in a Just chit chat.
Speaker 2:You know, it's true.
Speaker 1:It's true, and all these kids were talking about like their parents and it was great, like I just love I always love hearing kids' insights into this, and at one point, one of our kids said something about like when our dad's out of town, our mom would still protect us, and we have a dog, so our dog would protect us.
Speaker 1:This was in context of some other things other kids were saying, and this one, one of our kids, was like yeah, but if our dad was home and we got hurt, ooh, he'd be like a mama bear.
Speaker 2:And I was like, yes, yes, that is true, that is true, that is a known thing, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think the other reason, is this relevant other than I wanted to talk to Steven about? Some things is so I can focus me personally on the ways that Steven might rush me and our kids through anger or excitement.
Speaker 2:Excitement yeah.
Speaker 1:And completely miss the care and attachment building moments that he provides for all of us, when we are sad or overwhelmed or hurt, because it's endless, your well there is. I've never found the end. It is just and for me to come in and say you have no capacity for our kids' emotions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's wrong, that is in that moment I might be feeling that, but that is a miss, and it can feel really hurtful, like well, for obvious reasons. But it's also not the full story and I think we've got to understand ourselves and our partners full stories to the best of our abilities. And you know these ways as Time progresses, because they they change, so that we don't miss these moments of goodness and these shared experiences and these ways that we're like one, how you are aligned, on what you Want is aligned.
Speaker 2:Yes, because I hear that and I think that that is so true. I appreciate that like from the standpoint of like that I have, I do oh my god, I'll offer that.
Speaker 1:If anybody wants email me, I'll send you 75 million pictures.
Speaker 2:Of me holding our kids while they're crying. Yeah well, I think, the safest place in the whole world for them and I think, maybe I think you're pretty good with the kids in those moments Too pretty good guys, that's. That's a high, probably probably not as good as I am. You know, maybe like a six on a scale out 10. I'm probably like an eight, I'm something like that.
Speaker 1:But I know, laughing only encourage.
Speaker 2:Like why? Why do I? But I, I think that how we can end up on the best is, like I do, how we can end up on the same page in terms of best I get it is. I do recognize that anger and the enjoyment Are things I can struggle with, but I think you're all you're great at that.
Speaker 1:I can enjoy someone for you Can.
Speaker 2:I think you struggle sometimes when the kids are set, like you, to be a little sensitive and so, in a sense, like we Like, and that is all based on attachment experience.
Speaker 2:That's all based on our early caregiving experience and and rather than arguing about it and rather than getting in a fight about it, we can kind of borrow one another's strengths. Correct, if we have had these conversations about well, what is the best in this situation? And I love that how question like so, if we want our kids to be able to come to us and express Any range of emotions, like how would that look? And and that is how you get on the the same page of we're doing the best and in moments where you feel like you haven't quite Landed where you wanted to kind of like a meeting, like rather than saying like you didn't do it, like what it would be like.
Speaker 1:How could we have done this? Yeah, yeah, this moment, so I like not exactly aligned with it, like how could this have felt better?
Speaker 2:How could we yeah?
Speaker 1:how could this have felt more aligned with our values, with our we? One of the things we talk about at our membership is like a family ethic. That is important to us.
Speaker 2:Different couples that do that, yeah kind of like a family vision of like how you want to be, who you want to be yeah, we call ours a family ethic Based on an ethics class.
Speaker 1:I had one.
Speaker 2:It's just so. That's why we call it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it works for us. Yeah, but like so for us to be like that did not feel like that went according to our family ethic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how we want to be, yeah how could we have?
Speaker 1:you know, let's redo that in our minds like let's talk this out and how to get there well one.
Speaker 2:Actually, I think too, this is how this is how, like these conversations Actually can be connective, can cannot feel like intense and oppositional. But when you're asking the question of like how, how do we want to do this, like I, I think we're on the same page, but I, but how we implement this might look a little different. How could we, how could we do it? It like it, and it's actually fun, like I mean. I actually feel like I've learned Quite a bit even just having this conversation with you.
Speaker 1:But I think the other important thing is the how. If you can begin to replace that, no, if you can begin to replace why with how, yeah, like why did you do it? Why would you do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, why? I mean even with our kids, like how could how, how did that happen?
Speaker 1:How did this come to be? Or like, how did that feel like a good idea? Yeah, no, I don't mean that one, but like it is so much less accusatory than why would you do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, why it sets off a lot of things, why it sets off all the alarm bells when someone says why I don't even think I can say the word why without being like why? Like.
Speaker 1:My fingers, clench my shoulders like everything's tight, and then how is like? I'm actually curious how could we do this? Yeah, what's that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so you know, you and your partner Most likely you both want the best for your kids, but how are you gonna get there?
Speaker 1:It high five high five.
Speaker 2:How are you gonna get there? But but to know how, I think you also kind of have to know the history that's informing like how you might Individually think that you need to get there and then you want to come together and how those became your values.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and so you want to. You want to have that shared vision together. Today's show was produced by Aaron and Steven Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on couples counseling for parents and remember working on a healthy couple relationship is Good parenting.