Talking with your partner about being the default parent is one of the most challenging conversations for any couple! At the same time the non-default parent can feel like they are trying to do more than be a "helper" but feel like their partner is micro-managing how they parent. How can parenting partner's have this conversation in a way that brings resolution. Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP have the solution. Listen and find out.
Talking with your partner about being the default parent is one of the most challenging conversations for any couple! At the same time the non-default parent can feel like they are trying to do more than be a "helper" but feel like their partner is micro-managing how they parent. How can parenting partner's have this conversation in a way that brings resolution. Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP have the solution. Listen and find out.
Hello and welcome, Mrs Couples. Counseling for Parents.
Speaker 2:They show about couple relationships how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken.
Speaker 1:Hiya parents, Our Dad, Dr Steven Mitchell and our Mom, Erin Mitchell.
Speaker 2:Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Steven Mitchell, I'm Erin Mitchell and on today's show we are going to hash out a conversation that all of you and your parenting partner have probably had.
Speaker 1:Don't you think?
Speaker 2:You've had it today. We guarantee it.
Speaker 1:I don't guarantee it, but yes, I do think it's very common. I think it is one of those things we were talking with some clients well, lots of clients in the recent weeks about how common it is how frequent it is and how it is not a one and done conversation, it's just not.
Speaker 2:That is very true, and so this is Except for us.
Speaker 1:It's been one and done for us.
Speaker 2:We've resolved it, or resolved to never talk about it again. So this is how this came to my mind. So over the last couple weeks, I feel like on the IG, Instagram, I've been trying to drill down a little bit on this default, non-default parenting partner conflict dynamic which is like constantly, constantly, constantly present for every parenting partner couple.
Speaker 1:Partnership.
Speaker 2:Yes, not couple.
Speaker 1:Parenting partner couple. Why wouldn't we just say parenting partnership?
Speaker 2:It's just a lot of peas, but you already double beat it, I know, but I just, I don't know Just going for it. That's on me.
Speaker 1:This time it was on me. I apologize to all of us. My bad Move on. So in these couple partnerships, I know we couldn't move on that would have been too easy In these coupled partners. Please move on, I should stop.
Speaker 2:So I had been thinking about this and just we've kind of really been drilling down on it, trying to throw out some content out there into the world about this kind of stuff, and so it made me think about this conversation that we oftentimes have, that we have had between ourselves, but also that we often have with other couples, and it kind of goes something like this the default parent partner says I don't need a helper, I need a partner, which is a statement of I need someone who is going to be equitably engaged with this endeavor called parenting, who's going to be thinking ahead of time, thinking about the invisible labor, the emotional labor, considering our parenting responsibilities and our kids at all times, 24-7, thinking about like it's going to be invested and engaged, not just coming to me, the default parent, and saying, hey, I want to be here to support you and help you, what do you need me to do? So a partner doesn't do that.
Speaker 1:I would only add well, I have a lot to add already, but that will be later. I think I would add a partner doesn't only do that, because sometimes in partnerships. I mean it is like hey, what do we need? What's?
Speaker 2:happening here?
Speaker 1:It's not like that exclusively has relegated you to the helper zone, but when it does feel like you're coming in to tell me what to do, only that it feels it can feel like that.
Speaker 2:It tends to feel like that.
Speaker 1:But the other part I was going to say is I think there are other components to default parenting.
Speaker 2:But I think we're going to get into that in a second. So this is a bit reductionistic, just for example. So that's the dynamic right there. And then the flip side of this oftentimes, so the default parent will say this and the non default parent will have some kind of response that goes something like you know what, every time I try to do something on my own or have my own idea about parenting and do it, you have something to say about it, as if I've done it wrong or I haven't done it the right way. So I don't think you really want a partner, you just want someone who's going to do it exactly like you. And what ends up happening is I end up feeling like you are monitoring and micromanaging my parenting all the time.
Speaker 1:Yes, I have heard that in life and from thousands, probably tens of thousands of couples.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 1:Maybe more than tens of thousands.
Speaker 2:I mean you all know this. This is hot. This is like the never-ending, never-ending conflict for parenting partners who are couples.
Speaker 1:You couldn't do it, I stuck it in, didn't I? I mean, we laughed it did For all of us listening. I regret that I laughed because that only reinforces that you should try it again.
Speaker 2:You really do encourage me to keep it up.
Speaker 1:Okay, go, you really do.
Speaker 2:But just saying, I mean, this is just such a big conversation.
Speaker 1:I think part of what makes it so big is that it is very common. It feels like one of the core sort of tenets of the partnership as parents. But also I think the reason that it is core and so common is because what we are wanting is our partner to understand our experience.
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, I mean, I don't think I understand what you mean. Oh, I know I don't understand what you mean. It's not. No, I'm not getting it.
Speaker 1:I think the reason this conversation goes round and round and round One is because it's not entirely resolvable, because it does change the dynamics of this change as our kids grow and change, because how this worked six months ago may not be working now. So it does have to be renegotiated. But I also think what we're trying to say in these moments is me, I'm going to be the default parent in this, you're going to be the non default parent in this. I am trying to say, steven, I am overwhelmed. I have an example. Do you want to hear it?
Speaker 2:I mean it happened in our life this week.
Speaker 1:Awesome and we have had and I think resolved the default parent conversation many times, but this was.
Speaker 2:Notice. We've had and resolved it many times. So in other words, you have to have and resolve the conversation many times. It's not like a one and done kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Right, and I do think that we really have resolved it. I have felt really heard. I think you have felt really heard. I think we've really been like I'm glad we had this talk. I feel like you understand me better. I feel like I understand you better.
Speaker 2:I'm really glad we had this talk. That's how we end a lot of conversation. I'm so glad we have this talk. It just sounds so formal.
Speaker 1:Do you agree that we have left having that feeling Maybe not that so happy?
Speaker 2:we've been able to converse about this subject matter.
Speaker 1:Tell me when you're ready.
Speaker 2:I'm ready, I am. Do you feel like we? Yes, okay.
Speaker 1:But this week we were driving to a kid's soccer practice because, again for any of you who don't know, we have an 11, a nine and a five, and very close to six years Well, not, and and then close to 22 practices between all of them Soccer, all of them are in soccer right now and, yes, there are more practices than days in the week somehow.
Speaker 1:But we all were in the car together and one of our kids mentioned that their ankle was feeling sore, and so Stephen starts like troubleshooting, because Stephen has had a sore ankle. So he's like you know, you could do this, and these are some exercises. Tonight when we get home we'll stretch and whatever that was happening and it was great Our kid felt like yeah, you hear me. And then our kids moved on in conversation and started talking about one of Stephen's birthday parties that we had at a friend's house. They hosted a really cute themed party.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was great. It was a great birthday party, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't really do that kind of thing. Great, I mean, I love to celebrate, as we all know, but I mean, like, planning a themed party is like a little bit beyond what I'm capable of or willing to do, maybe, I don't know. Either way, it was fun and they were all remembering oh my goodness, and do you remember they had this? Do you remember they didn't even tie it into the cake, and do you remember this? And then one of them said like dad, do you remember that part? When we came on the stairs and we surprised you, because part of the theme was that our kids were all in costume and so they were like and we surprised you with the costume. And then we all turned to look at Stephen who's driving, and Stephen has not heard a word.
Speaker 2:And I said I was focused on the road, no.
Speaker 1:Stephen and he's like yeah, and I was like do you know that there's a question to you on the table? And he was like nope, and the boys start laughing, you know like oh my goodness. And so they like fell back in and then one of them was like what happened to you? Like Stephen explained what happened. Anyway, my point is which was I don't.
Speaker 2:I won't tell you the whole thing, but I was thinking about ankle injuries, because we had just been talking about them. And then I was thinking about I'm not going to tell the whole story- Can I tell where you landed?
Speaker 1:But?
Speaker 2:but why it started with. I began to think about you know what I saw. I like European soccer so I watched you know the Premier League a bit, and then I was just thinking about, you know, I wonder how those athletes take care of, like, their nicks and bruises and their ankles and if they have these functional trainers. So I was just kind of you know, I just sort of off in a place.
Speaker 1:And then you ended up thinking about if Tom Brady is still with his trainer in retirement. So let's just say he had such a long career.
Speaker 2:You know he really played for such a long time. I was wondering. I was like he had to have someone who was, you know, helping him with with this kind of stuff. And yeah, I did end up, and I don't even like the Patriots or the Bucks or anyway.
Speaker 1:So we all are laughing, but it was in this moment and I was not. I was not mad. This did not end in a fight, which I think is why it's a great example for us, but it was a moment where I thought we are all right. Here we are having this conversation, you are not present, so it feels like it's on me to be Fielding comments and questions about this party and then I, which I was doing a great job of until the question was specifically Addressed to you.
Speaker 1:Yes and you were not anywhere near it and to be perfectly honest, I kind of loved that moment, like Steven, would you like to join the class? And I'd, I'd I don't celebrate that exactly, but a little bit, because it feels like that moment where it I feel like as the default parent, so often you are present and checked in and engaged and, like we've talked about it, stevens are, you know, he packs for the trips, he loads the car, he does the things.
Speaker 2:But in terms of I troubleshoot how to help ankle entries.
Speaker 1:He is deep diving on those ankle injuries, but I don't always feel like we have access to you.
Speaker 2:I am not.
Speaker 1:I'm not continually Like I struggle with being engaged in that kind of situation and what I would say is I feel like you have the ability to focus on Whatever it is you are focusing. I get to check out, you don't yes, because I still hear if I am as checked into work as Steven is, but one of our kids is asking for an apple in the next room. I hear it all 17 times.
Speaker 1:I've asked for it and I'm looking at Steven like he's never heard it. It's not that he's not answering, he does not hear them. Yeah and those are the things that I think great.
Speaker 2:Yes, a couple.
Speaker 1:In a way that makes me feel like I'm not being. I'm not. I'm not waiting for you to fail. I'm not looking at you hoping that like see, you didn't hear. I knew you wouldn't hear.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like you really don't hear right.
Speaker 2:But even if they're closer to you but on a bigger level, like on a bigger level, those things happen where you know you, you and I have an equal amount of work in the universe and in life. But there is still, you know, kind of societally you know, and just sort of how it shakes out sometimes, there's still this idea that you are still going to be 100% checked in, aware, available, attuned to this other, really, really, really, really big part of our life, which is our parenting and our kids, and for some reason, like I don't have to be, or I get to, I get to tune out that kind of thing and and so that just happens on on a larger scale, you know to to partners who work you know full-time or you know what, whatever it might be, because Because I think some, some people could hear that example and just be like, oh well, you know, it just sort of tunes out sometimes. You know, it's just kind of part of this personality.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's kind of what happens and and I think it's I think the other thing couples say sometimes and I mean you have said it to me you never tune out, you never don't hear our kids.
Speaker 1:True yeah and and, and it does feel different Because I feel like, sure, on occasion that has happened, but that is not the trend. The trend is I don't tune out or I'm it's like I'm not tuned out. I am Chronically tuned in in a way that I think you absolutely do tune in and sometimes you do hear the requests for the Apple.
Speaker 1:Yeah and sometimes you do hear the question about the birthday or whatever. But if, if it's gonna be one of us who doesn't hear that and one of us who does, it's gonna be well, doesn't Amy who does?
Speaker 2:then I think sometimes we also hear the, the non-default parent, kind of be like, well, that's on you, you know, I mean tune out, you know. Like that kind of Comment corrects it's like, well, that's your fault for being so, you know. Like you don't have to be perfect, you don't have to, you don't have to always, you know, get parenting right 100% of the time and you don't. You know those kinds of comments which are not useful Either. But I think that that's a little different than what we're talking about from the standpoint of, so that that kind of thing Happens, where I think the, the default parent, what the default parent is trying to say, is like this is my experience, what you're saying.
Speaker 2:I don't get to tune out, I, I have to always, always be engaged, and and even in that conversation, like I, I did, I mean I don't feel I don't hear you being like, you know, so you better never do that again and you better be engaged. But I think, more than anything, I just hear you saying like see, like it happens, even like, like it's a reality, stephen, like it, and you're not even better about I mean, I Think you could be, but but you're not. You're just like, don't you see? And I think, if, if, that's what the default parent wants from the non default parent. So just simply like, don't you see it is different?
Speaker 1:and I think that's what I was saying at the very beginning about what I want, what I think both because there is something you want me to see too, I think as an undefault parent. But I think in these Experiences, like in this, like if we are talking about the car birthday conversation, we could get very lost in the details of that, where Stephen could be like I was thinking about our kid, like I'm trying to fix his ankle, and I could be like I'm trying to reference what Tom Brady.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to go to the best you know, trying to get the best medical care for our kid.
Speaker 1:But I think you can get lost in the details of I'm like, see, and this is what you always do, and you always do this thing rather like, and we can get like Sort of like content heavy about like trying to explain in the micro moments of, and honestly, how it usually comes out. It's criticism.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I could be like oh you, your brains never wandered, you know, like your brain, I mean, just the other day we were talking about something and then you started jumping jump it down this trip. I mean it happens to like why am I, why are you getting all over me for for that happening? It just happened one time.
Speaker 1:Like these kinds of and the more defensive Stephen gets typically, the more examples I find myself being like no, and you also did it this one time and it's like my gosh back off of well?
Speaker 2:Well, then it's like and then it just gets bigger and bigger, and it's been and it's been years and it's you've never.
Speaker 2:And then, and then what really happens is it all begins to feel really dark and really like this is never going to change, you're never going to get it, you're never going to acknowledge my experience and I think from my Part part and I'm not saying I feel this way right now, but maybe a but I think my, my person in this conversation usually feels like I'm never going to get it right, I'm never going to be enough, and then You're just.
Speaker 1:That feels Pretty bad, I think the person in my chair, I think I mean I do think there are different versions. I mean this is definitely one of those story dependent things, but for me it's you don't know me like you. Yeah, you don't like. I'm not trying to criticize you, I don't want your defensiveness, I want you to know my experience and you are unwilling to hear and see me, and In the worst moments it comes out as criticism.
Speaker 1:So it really isn't hearable because I'm. What I'm doing is pointing out all the ways you fail, all the time.
Speaker 2:Well, what's so interesting is you didn't even say anything about that yesterday, when that happened, like this is the first. You know, we all laughed about it, yeah yeah, but like it's also so when you're we're saying, like this conversation can be resolved in a way where that kind of thing can happen without the intensity well, yeah, and it's like it doesn't mean it was nothing, but it doesn't, it wasn't a big big deal.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's right, because I think you do know me in this conversation.
Speaker 2:I think you do know, I mean everything you said is right. Yeah, I don't need to like, yeah, that happened but also there there wasn't intensity in that moment.
Speaker 1:Because, yeah, that, because sometimes the reason that even matters is sometimes in that conversation if I am the only one checked in, I I'm still the only one parenting, even though there are two available parents. It's still me, because I'm still listening and I'm not thinking about Tom Brady and Right that can. The more that happens, the more hurtful it becomes like well, I would say you're checking out costs me.
Speaker 2:The more it happens without it being recognized that it's happening, because I think there's there's an idea, like it still happens in our relationship.
Speaker 1:You know, I obviously Yesterday, it wasn't yesterday, or?
Speaker 2:two days ago, I don't really remember, haven't been paying attention this whole podcast when we talking about so it happens okay this morning, but I, but I see, I think that it, if there's recognition that it happens, I think that that's the for me at least, for our relationship, and then I think for relationships with other couples that we work with where I feel like there's been some, some change and some Some real healing and resolution on this.
Speaker 2:It's if the non-default parent can recognize that it happens and that there's a cost, not that they never do it, not that they it's you know they're perfect and a mistake is never made again but that they recognize when it happens, they name it, they acknowledge it, but then also do make efforts towards that being different, to move towards that. I think that that in and of itself can-.
Speaker 1:Change your relationship.
Speaker 2:Yes, can calm the storm of it.
Speaker 1:And then I think for the or, yes, for the default parent, I think that the change can be saying this is a moment that just happened and this is what that's like for me, rather than saying you just did it again.
Speaker 2:Hear it like kind of like the resentment, like the resentment flood coming, so that this moment becomes all the moments.
Speaker 1:Well, that this yeah but also the way something gets described. I mean, we have this. Well, I digress, but way of expressing ourself it's. You are heard very differently when you lead with a criticism, even if you're trying to describe what happened. If you were describing what someone did wrong, that's critical. If you are describing the situation and how it hurt, that's, that is-.
Speaker 2:I mean, somebody might take that critically, but it's definitely like it is different.
Speaker 1:You're trying to say You're such a jerk, You're so entitled and disengaged is exactly how those moments feel, but that's not describing my experience.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 1:Our kids were trying to talk to you Like they're trying to share this story and I felt like I was the only one feeling that where'd you go?
Speaker 2:What happened? We want you involved. You know, we want you involved.
Speaker 1:Like that feels very different and I am describing the same situation, but one is hearable and one is actually very critical and attacking, even though that is what it feels like in those moments.
Speaker 2:Well, okay, so let's go to that, the micromanaging comment that happens after, because I think what we just said there is very important and kind of speaks to you know-.
Speaker 2:My experience, right, what the default parent is wanting. But then there's that non-default parent who's like but you don't want a partner, you just want someone to do this, like you, and you're kind of micromanaging, monitoring everything I do. Let me have my own experience or my own interactions with the kids and just trust me, kind of type thing. Right which Can be true. Yeah, can be true.
Speaker 1:There is a. It's an interesting thing, I think, where go ahead.
Speaker 2:Nope, I just didn't write you go ahead.
Speaker 1:I'll hold on to the thought yeah, I do think default parents can struggle to relinquish that, to trust that if I let you do this your way, it will not ultimately cost me, it won't end up making this harder.
Speaker 2:That's true. Yeah, on me, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know sort of some examples of like if I let you put the kids to sleep, as I mean, when they were teeny tiny, there's a solid chance it's going to make them more exasperated in the end and I'm going to have to come in and console an even more upset human. Now that that could be based on reality, that could be based on fear, but those are the things that need to be talked out, but that isn't always true. Sometimes I do just want you to do it my way and I have to back off and be like Wow, we do. I mean, our classic example for this was finger puppets, and I know it's a ridiculous one, but our oldest kid loved finger puppets.
Speaker 1:I forget how old he was, I'm gonna say like six months or something and they like belly laughs for days, like he could not get enough, and I would be like Steven, you've got to do the finger puppets. And Steven was like Erin, do you want to know? And I'm gonna do finger puppets with this kid. I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you right now and I'm gonna tell you again tomorrow when you tell me again, I should never. I'm not a finger puppet person, like that's not fun for me. We have our own way of engaging and interacting and he belly laughs with me too. I don't have to do it your way.
Speaker 1:Yeah and that doesn't mean I'm a bad parent.
Speaker 2:I don't, I'm not interested in and so I think that what the the Fundamental key differences, what you said right there, that is hey, we have a relationship, we have a way of bonding too. It doesn't have to look exactly like yours, it can look different, but that me doing finger puppets or not doing finger puppets doesn't cost you Any. No, it doesn't. It doesn't add to you, add to your burden, whereas I think oftentimes what is getting missed by the non-default Parent in that, like, you just want to manage me and you don't, is that that very idea, that? But what happens is you come along and create more burden rather than Relieving a burden, rather than, rather than being a partner and Equally coming in and bearing the burden just like I would, and I, and I think that that's what you have to be assessing. So if you want, if you don't want, to be micro managed as a partner, then you need to make sure that what you're doing as a partner doesn't add more To the load of the default parent.
Speaker 1:I mean that's and if what you're, if you, I can't it. Default and non-default is harder for me. So you, I have to think to myself as a default parent If I'm wanting to come in and correct Steven or be like whoa, that's not how we do it, or no, or whatever. However, that micro managing might look to say is is this costing me or do I just do this different?
Speaker 2:And if this is costing me.
Speaker 1:That's a conversation to have in a different moment.
Speaker 2:That's it right there.
Speaker 1:That's good, I like if it's not costing me, if it's not costing my kid.
Speaker 2:Having it cost my kid cost me to sure sure.
Speaker 1:But if it, if it's not, and it's just different, you might need to go to a different part of your living area and like, put on some headphones and do some deep breaths, because I wish Steven was doing finger puppets and, like you, you would my belly laugh.
Speaker 2:I get is better than when you bounce him. You know what a deeper, more robust.
Speaker 1:But I mean, we're, that's a, that's a sort of a silly example, but we really did have that conversation 49 times before you said stop saying it you know, like stop.
Speaker 2:Right. So so I think a classic example might be like a a I'm I'm gonna watch the kids and Aaron's gonna go out and Relax and have a good time with some friends, but if she comes back to Chaos and the house of mess and the in and all this kind of stuff, her going away Just cost her Correct cost her, absolutely cost her. Whereas if she goes away and she comes back and that you know Houses in good shape, kids are asleep, everybody's calm and you know, and it's like she comes back and continues to just be able to be in that Place where she is not having to think of a million bazillion other things, then that means I Was a partner in that moment and I think that that's what gets missed in that, in that conversation.
Speaker 1:I think we've talked about this example before, but I think it was just last year. I went out to dinner with two of my friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were with.
Speaker 1:Yes like it was a all. All of my friends had met. We were staying in one house together and Me and my girlfriends were going out to dinner and I made Everybody all the kids, all the other partners dinner before we left and I wasn't even upset about it. I was happy to do it. It was the plan and we didn't know we were going out to dinner. So I was like, well, I was already in charge dinner, I'll just do that. I did it and the next day I got mad about it.
Speaker 2:I forget what happened, but I was like, oh yeah, well, I think you came back and the kitchen was still a mess.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay put the, you were putting kids, yeah, yeah and I was like neat now I had to clean up the dinner I made and didn't right. I don't remember honestly, but I do remember you being like. No one asked you to do that. We had a plan we could have done it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like I was. I was putting the kids asleep and I was not the cleanup the making.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, because you're like, we can do that too, like no one, whatever. But the clean are the making, like no one needed you to do that, and that was one of those moments like I Need to back off and and if I'm going to do it, yeah, cuz I was like I, we could have made dinner, we could have done you like you know, and we would like Absolutely, but you know, correct.
Speaker 1:I don't question that even a little. But if I do it, I have to back off of that. I did it, that was my choice. And if you don't trust your partner will have made dinner or would have cleaned it up after whatever, then that is a conversation that does need to be have that and that, and that's where.
Speaker 2:that's where the do you non-default parent me needs to recognize the burden that that places on Aaron and have different action to be like. No, in those situations, I know that, yeah, I'm gonna make dinner, I'm gonna clean it up, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna cause further burden to you and that means, trust me, let me do things the way I'm going to do them within that context, and that's where I end up. Not, I don't feel micromanaged, I don't feel monitored and you feel free to, you know, be free be free.
Speaker 2:You're free to be free.
Speaker 1:The other thing I was going to say is back to like, if it is a parenting difference, if I feel like it's costing my kid, that's something that has to be negotiated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's it. I, that goes both ways. I think you know you, but you have to talk about that, both ways, for proactively, having that conversation in the heat of the moments.
Speaker 1:You're never going to resolve parenting difference. When you're mad, when you're saying like you're not doing this right, I don't like the way you just did that. That doesn't. That does not work. Yeah, that will never work. That is something, and that I mean. Those are the things that people reach out to us for like. This is the moment that happens. We cannot get out of the stuck place around it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, help. And so for that, for that non-default parent, that I think there's two things you, you have to clue in to your partner's experience and Acknowledge and validate what it means to be the default parent. You, you, just you got to accept it.
Speaker 2:That your kid might walk right by you to ask your other partner for Apple it is a reality and if you want to fight that and you want to get upset about it, which does not mean you're doing nothing. Well, Well no, and you want to say no, it's not, then I'm gonna be honest with you. That is on you and you're gonna keep Having a huge disconnect and conflict between you and your partner. So that's it. I know that's my knowledge of the difference if you can't, yeah, you have to be able to, and then also for that not.
Speaker 1:I think it's worth saying, especially since you say that so strongly Well, I mean doesn't mean more, less, worse, better. It just means there's something you neither one understand about each other's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have to acknowledge that first right, well, the non-default parent, but it's gotta acknowledge it. Yes, that's who's gotta acknowledge it. And then I think, also for that now, non-default parent, if you don't want to be monitored or micromanaged, you have to ask yourself the question is what I'm doing? Going to add Further burden to my partner? Because if it is, then you are going to be micromanaged and monitored.
Speaker 1:If it isn't, then you won't be, and for that, if you are, you can say like, whoa, I really thought about this, right, this is right.
Speaker 2:And and for that default parent you've got to Assess. Is this just different or is this because it costs me more and we need to have a conversation?
Speaker 1:And if it is the latter, put a pin in it and come back to it later. Those conversations don't get resolved in real time, they don't. You cannot have a proactive plan In the moment when you say I hate the way you do that Last thing cuz I, we said this is something that happens again. What over and over depending. But I do think having this conversation Once in a way where it went well or people felt heard, where people felt understood, where we do find connection, even in that conflict, it reduces intensity, it reduces frequency, it reduces duration of those moments like we laughed about it last week when I happen this.
Speaker 2:This is a solvable issue. You and honestly like we, think in our humble opinion, if you go about it the way we just said, it'll be solved. Today's show was produced by Aaron and Steven Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on couples counseling for parents and remember working on a healthy couple relationship is Good parenting.