The way you parent can indeed influence your partner's feelings towards you, and the level of connection you feel as parenting partners. Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP discuss why how you parent is so important to your couple relationship and feeling connected as a couple.
The way you parent can indeed influence your partner's feelings towards you, and the level of connection you feel as parenting partners. Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP discuss why how you parent is so important to your couple relationship and feeling connected as a couple.
Hello and welcome, mrs Couples Counseling for Parents. They show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Hiya parents.
Speaker 2:Our Dad, dr Steven Mitchell, and our Mom Erin Mitchell.
Speaker 1:Hello and thanks for doing us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Steven Mitchell.
Speaker 2:I'm Erin Mitchell.
Speaker 1:And on today's show we want to talk about how your parenting can be a direct influence on your level of connection and intimacy with your parenting partner.
Speaker 2:I think in a lot of ways this is self-evident, like, of course, your parenting is a major impact on your relationship.
Speaker 1:But I think in other ways it frustrates people. Yeah, I think you would think it's self-evident, but I think it becomes frustrating because? So here's an example.
Speaker 2:Let's give an example.
Speaker 1:This is how it can become frustrating. Let's say Steven is caught in a parenting moment with one of his kids and in this parenting moment he says something or interacts with his kid in a way with like elevated tone of voice, a little more intense energy maybe than he wants to, and Erin hears this or sees this and she, being the more regulated parent in the moment, goes whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's happening here? And maybe she interjects in the moment, maybe she just lets the moment move on. But the moment passes.
Speaker 1:Let's say Steven then realizes like, oh, you know, like that's not the way I wanted to interact with our kids. My tone of voice, my energy, it was off and go to you know our kid, and say hey, I apologize, I was wrong, that's my bad, you know, I don't want to use that tone of voice with you. I'm sorry if it frustrated you or felt scary, whatever it might be, and kind of repairs with kid. But then what is left is the interaction between Steven and Erin, because maybe Steven walks into the kitchen and Erin is giving him the vibe that there's something going on and in that, like I maybe feel some confusion. Well, my name is Steven, I don't think anyone. I don't think anyone out there listening is like what he was talking about himself. So let's say, I walk in and I'm like whoa, like these are some very cold vibes that I'm receiving from Erin, and I think that this often happens because maybe you know, I ask, I hit what's up, what's wrong with you, and everybody loves that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's wrong with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's your problem? And you know, erin responds like are you kidding me? Like the way you just interacted with our kid, like I'm upset. Like I'm upset about that, like I wish you hadn't done that, like I don't like it when that happens and I'm kind of like what?
Speaker 1:Like oh, we fit, like we're cool, like you know we fixed it Like we repaired, but what hasn't happened is there's been no Okay repair between us, us. And then I think that that creates a conflict, a place of disconnection for parenting partners, and although you said it's like it's pretty self-evident, I think that this happens all the time, like Well, we talk to couples all of the time that are All the time that are frustrated with this.
Speaker 2:I think mutually. I think for different reasons. So we will continue with us as the example, because this has been us a lot of times and I want to point out, you started the example. I think that's very humble of you. I've actually thought about this lately and a lot of our podcast examples the villain is you.
Speaker 1:The villain. Well, yeah, I don't want to.
Speaker 2:Villainize. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's also true, oh yeah but what I'm trying to say is this happens both ways.
Speaker 1:Yes, it does.
Speaker 2:It happens to different.
Speaker 1:Your often wrong Degrees. Both Make bad, Just bad parenting often.
Speaker 2:This happens to both partners. I do think, though, there is a difference. I think typically one partner in our relationship I have a.
Speaker 1:You do it more than I do. In terms of the, I'm going to come back when Stephen feels like he has just run this joke into the grump, so go ahead, take it away. I'm done, I'm done.
Speaker 2:I think one partner typically has a higher stress tolerance for their kids. For us, I think that's me mostly. I think I tolerate mess different Sure easier I tolerate just overall chaos.
Speaker 1:No ways, yeah, everything.
Speaker 2:I've also typically interacted I mean honestly, just more minutes per day with our kids, which I think helps me understand this is where they might be, or whatever. I just think there's a different thought process maybe, but I'm not sure if that part resonates. But regardless, I have mostly a different stress tolerance with our kids. I think I typically flip my lid less often with them.
Speaker 1:I flip my lid more often with Stephen Tell me about it when he flips his lid with our kids. That's true.
Speaker 2:And when I am stressed with our kids or my tone's elevated, Stephen comes in and is less activated. That isn't as activating for you.
Speaker 1:Let's be clear when we say flip our lid, we are not talking about anything in any way, shape or form that would mirror or reflect anything abusive or inappropriate in terms of how you interact with your kids Yelling, hitting like no, anything.
Speaker 2:you know, ray, or?
Speaker 1:anything like that. What we're talking about is those everyday frustrations.
Speaker 2:Put your shoes on because I said so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Being a human and those interactions that Well, when our stress gets the best of our humanity. Exactly.
Speaker 2:But I do think, when I say flip to my lid, who am I talking about?
Speaker 1:Dan Siegel his book Cold Brain Child. He uses that analogy about when you've lost when we become dysregulated. What's happened is neurologically we flipped our lid, which is the lid like our frontal cortex is absent from being engaged, and so he kind of. It's a really helpful term.
Speaker 2:It is a term that our family uses all of the time, probably not every day, but maybe every day. But, just like that inability to like this doesn't need to be this big of a deal, and my response is actually going to make this worse. Like I'm overwhelmed, like life is overwhelmed, so yes, so I was just pointing out like it does happen both ways. It's a trend to interrupt our relationship more when you have gotten frustrated with the kids.
Speaker 1:That's true. That's so true Because I think, like when I see that it doesn't necessarily Activate you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't I think never, like I can't honestly think of a little more. Yeah, I don't think I've ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1:So, you know, maybe I think that's something to note you know, maybe between you and your partner there's a different level of activation Nonetheless, like that, when it happens for you and you feel activated by that, that interrupts our connection, that interrupts our level of intimacy, and I think that there's this. Well, I'm curious, like I think what we've heard from other couples and I think you would maybe reflect this, is that it is that idea of like. In that moment, steven, you seem like you're like being threatening to the kid, like the kids are scared or the kids are upset or whatever it is. It kind of puts the kids in a bad situation and there's a feeling of like. Why would you do that?
Speaker 2:Oh for sure. I think, yeah, I think there is something very instinctually protective that happens in me where I say you don't get to make my kid worry, they're in trouble, or anything like.
Speaker 1:And so I think why this becomes important.
Speaker 2:Especially when it's you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially when it's me. It's me more often.
Speaker 2:I might have misunderstood what you were saying.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I think that's a good point, I think. Why this becomes important is because I think that the partner who is the Steven in this situation, I think can miss the reality that there needs to be a level of repair between their partner in those instances as well, rather than I think what happens is a level of defensiveness, Like why are you criticizing my parenting? Or why are you saying like, oh, you're the perfect parent, so you never make a mistake? Oh, I guess you know we just all need to be more like, whatever happens is you didn't actually finish that sentence, but I think that's right.
Speaker 2:Like you, just want me to be more like you.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And then I think there's I think the most common phrase is we hear, and honestly, from you. I mean, it's been a long time, because I think this is something. While it doesn't never happen anymore, it definitely happens less often. The intensity is not so big between us because we know what needs to happen.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have to last that long, but I think something early on it would be like what you heard in me saying like please don't do that. Like don't, like they're hungry or that you know like they don't like those shoes. They've said it for five straight days. Why would like? Why?
Speaker 1:would those be the only shoes you brought?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Whatever Is, if you've never brought the wrong shoes, like it feels like, like. I'm saying I'm perfect and I'm saying that you're always terrible, and I think that's the defense we hear a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and that and that, that's not what's happening.
Speaker 2:And if that is what's happening, that is a completely separate conversation where everyone does need to be really reflective about. Of course, no one's a perfect parent. No one always does the thing the right way. We all do get overwhelmed or the you know the noise is too much. And the groceries just arrived, and all the all at once. It just happens, but. But how we talk about it matters a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that then also, what happens in this I think you were kind of alluding to it a little bit too is you can get into some you kind of get into a parenting differences conversation, I think, where you begin to again like I could get really defensive, like I could say get really defensive and be like, no, you know they need to, you know they need to learn, or you know, say, hey, you know life isn't always easy, you know, and sometimes they're going to have people kind of talk to them in a rough way and they got to figure out how to, you know, deal with that, and these are the things that begin to happen. And then it does begin to be about Parenting, parenting and difference. And then, and really I think one of the ways to think about this as parenting partners is what you're talking about. Why this all matters is because you're talking about your connection with your partner and that our parenting and how we parent causes it like influences how we think and feel about our partners 100%.
Speaker 1:So when I see you, know you, aaron, like, interact with our kids and a loving kind, just you know, really like wonderful way, that causes me to feel good about you. Oh, similarly as a person, right?
Speaker 2:I mean some of, I think, the times when I feel like filled with love for Stephen, especially now as parents but I mean honestly even before would be seeing with him, him with kids. But now, as parents, like watching something, like I, even look through pictures of Stephen with our kids. I was literally doing that this afternoon.
Speaker 1:I shot at this picture.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was just them sleeping.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right.
Speaker 2:Two of our three of them, two of our kids and Stephen sleeping in them, and I mean they're just like a pile. Everyone's just on top of.
Speaker 1:Stephen, the sleep pile.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it melts me. I'm like you're my favorite person in the whole entire universe. And I'm so glad they have you and like, yes, it I mean it definitely builds connection and movement towards intimacy.
Speaker 1:And I think this is why it really matters, Because if you see your partner treat your kids in a way that feels good and supportive and connective, you say, oh, that means they can do that with me. But if you see your partner treat your kids in a way that doesn't feel connective, but feels dismissive or harsh or too intense, whatever it is, then it's like, oh no, that's how they treat me or that's how they might treat me, and it begins to. It begins to really influence how partners communicate with one another. And so from the end of I think what it ends up doing is the errands in the story can become more rigid and the Stevens in the story can become more defensive, because I think the errands in the story say, hey, don't treat our kid like that Well, you will not.
Speaker 1:You better not do that. You need to start doing this. And then it's start monitoring the parenting and start monitoring all the interactions in a way that is to protect, quote, unquote, protect. And what that means for the Stevens is that defensiveness, that doubling down on you know what, like don't tell me how to parent, like you know why, you know you do the same thing, you know all these kinds of things, and I think that that just is you know, traveling down a road you don't wanna go.
Speaker 2:I think in a way. I think about this is very often when we see this, because there's a triangle now right, like where they're supposed to be, just like us, and then our kids are like with us and like it's us and we're here, and but now I think the errands in this.
Speaker 2:See you the Stevens is a barrier to connection with my kids. Yeah, like you are something I have to monitor. You are something that needs monitoring, and I think opposite. I think the Stevens in this scenario feel like our kids are a barrier to our connection. Yeah, exactly, and so like there are the stress that must be like, taken care of and contained, so that we can get back to being close and connected, and I'm like no, you're the problem. Like the way you handle our kids is something that needs to be contained.
Speaker 1:And so this is why it is really important for you, as partners, to figure out how you want to parent, to try to be on the same pages, relatively close, in terms of parenting and parenting styles, not because it is all about how it influences your relationship.
Speaker 2:And I think this is another thing where things get sticky. You do need to have the same parenting style approach. Implementation is something that is so unique.
Speaker 1:That is a key distinction.
Speaker 2:Because Steven and I are never.
Speaker 1:Say it again you need to be on the same page in terms of parenting style approach.
Speaker 2:I think it's fundamental to having a healthy family interaction, both as a couple, parents, all of it, the whole thing.
Speaker 1:An approach means. This is our perspective on kids. This is our perspective on what our kids need. This is our perspective on how we want to foster a relationship with our kids. Those kind of fundamental things and then parenting style approach. Same page, but the implementation. How you.
Speaker 2:it's nuanced, and that doesn't mean you because we do things I mean. The example I constantly use, which is the most ridiculous example ever in the whole universe, is the finger puppets.
Speaker 1:Oh, you've mentioned the finger puppets.
Speaker 2:I will forever, because it was the first time I noticed like this is important to me. Finger puppets make our baby laugh. Use the finger puppets. Like Aaron, I'm going to sit down with you and level. It's been two weeks. If you're asking for me to use the finger puppets. And do you want to know when I'm going to use the finger? Puppets.
Speaker 1:Never.
Speaker 2:I am never going to use the finger puppets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think the approach, the idea being like you know, the approach being like you know what kids you know they need, is they need that engagement and they need that play and they need that attention from a parent. They need that joy and delight.
Speaker 2:And I'm like you have never heard a belly laugh till you've heard the finger puppet belly laugh, and so the approach.
Speaker 1:we have the same air and I have the same thought.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're like, I totally agree.
Speaker 1:But I will never implement that approach through the use of finger puppets.
Speaker 2:And you said I'm never going to do that. It's not interesting to me. I wouldn't be fun for the baby because I wouldn't be having fun. You think it's hilarious. Because you think it's hilarious, I might implement it by like making funny faces or wrestling around or you know kind of.
Speaker 1:you know whatever it might be and that is such a significant distinction. That's big stuff here.
Speaker 2:But and I think that that isn't I mean, that's obviously much easier said than done, kind of, but it does take some proaction, not in the heats of these moments, the heats of these moments, the heated moments.
Speaker 1:I also said that it takes some proaction in the heats of these moments.
Speaker 2:I don't know how to undo that at this point. It takes being proactive in the heat, not in the heat of the moment.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:OK, so sorry, you don't work out your parenting styles when you're frustrated, or right? After a parent has just elevated their tone or just given the exasperated, like never mind.
Speaker 1:But you can't have this perspective of you know what. You do your own thing, I'm going to do my own thing.
Speaker 2:No, that's right. That causes an instant chasm.
Speaker 1:Because that and this is why it is important like parenting how you parent is so connected to your level of intimacy and connection with your partner, and I think that many partners experience this level of disconnection and lack of intimacy, because this is one of the things that they are.
Speaker 2:It begins to break down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they have this ideal where you can have a different approach and you should be, you know you should be OK, and it's like no, I really do think you need to have the same approach, but how you implement it can be different, and that's and I think you know back. So back to the example, right? I think where this comes into play again is like so, from Aaron and I's approach, like with my listen to us.
Speaker 2:We're all over the place.
Speaker 1:Not very good with the English language you.
Speaker 2:I am never good with he's a moment, whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry, you know what we mean. And the idea of the approach is Aaron and I are in the same page, you know, like we don't want to be interacting with our kids from a dysregulated place. That is not beneficial for anyone, and so in that, in that moment, really, what we're talking about is oh, you know what, like, what Aaron is noting in me is like, hey, you're not, you're not coming with the approach that we talked about, or the approach that we agreed on, or kind of where we like, where we want to come from as parents. And I don't have to be defensive about that because I can say, you know what, like I agree with you on the approach and I and I missed it. I don't need to, I don't need to be like, oh no, me coming with an elevated tone of voice and a level of intensity is exactly the approach that we want. We want to take with our kids.
Speaker 2:I can be like oh yeah, like you did yesterday, right. I mean, you said the same thing, right, but I okay. So I think to some extent we've talked about this before and I think this is where a playful for us that always works with humor, I think always is right to, playfully or with humor, say some sort of cue, to pause the moment, to say you are not where you mean to be right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like yeah would you like for me to step in? Or sometimes that alone is like whoa, I am not where I want to be. Guys, I'm so sorry, and you can flip it right then, and that's situation dependent, but like knowing that cue, so you can stop right then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really important.
Speaker 2:But I think what you were talking about earlier, I think, is the second really important part, and there's only, I think, only one more. But coming repairing, do the repair work there.
Speaker 1:With the kit, with our kit. Yes, go repair.
Speaker 2:And I think it's important that I don't. The errands in this don't need to see that it's fine if they do, but like it's not something like I need to be a part of this either way, but I do need to know about it. But then also repair has to happen here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like, hey, like, and I think repair could be as simple as this, because in the moments that we've had where this has happened, I think maybe tell me if this is right or not. I think what happens is there might be like I might come back and be like, hey, you were right. Like thanks for saying something, or thanks for giving me kind of the look, or thanks for you know, like I was not being my best self.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. Sorry, thanks. I've talked to you, know so-and-so about it and that's worked out Like that kind of, because that would feel like a repair to me in terms of acknowledging what had happened.
Speaker 2:Totally. I don't think I mean that you were right.
Speaker 1:Well, it didn't have to be a, you were right, but that's something I might say.
Speaker 2:I think that's again. I think that's a couple specific. I think you need to know each other's stories. I think it would. I think it's always helpful to know. Like I was super stressed. And it was like the 49th thing, and it was like you know I've been. I keep using the shoes, example, but I'm just gonna keep going with it but like all their shoes are in the car, because all of their shoes are always in the car and these were the shoes that were there and it just was too much and it was like context.
Speaker 2:Again, explanations aren't excuses, but explanations are like oh yeah, you're a person who has feelings and I remember that now, and that is really frustrating and that's totally happened to me whatever. But then I think the other thing is. I think when this is thematic, when this feels like it keeps happening, there has to be like and this is what we're going to do to change it, or like I'm going to start.
Speaker 1:We've gotta get in line with our parent. Like it's not enough to just Theoretically, we agree on the approach but, like in the implementation, like there's sort of a repeated, like operation outside of the approach. I think that that is where there has to be some difference and some accountability and some like okay, like you were saying, what are we going to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like anyone. Well, I would love to hear your comments on this, but like we can all relate to us having something.
Speaker 2:That is the thing, like it's for me. I don't really get all that overstimulated, but when I do, and then there's music and then there's a mess, and then there's another mess and then all the dishes are still in the sink and then the lunchboxes are still in the bags and whatever it just for me it stacks up. I think that's true for all of us. It's just those happen to be my thing. I get that when I see that that happened for you. Like you had a really stressful day at work.
Speaker 2:You came in the house is a disaster. We all are running late. We were supposed to have already done five things and we're minutes behind and we're gonna be late, whatever all the things, and we can relate to that Like we're all people. It's not. We're not asking for relational perfection. I want you to be a perfect parent all the time but, I, do want to know we're taking accountability by not just acknowledging it, but by having a plan.
Speaker 1:And then doing something, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's really important.
Speaker 2:I want to know that you're working on something to proactively reduce stress, so you don't walk in and at 11 already You've been around us for 30 seconds and you're already mad or whatever, and vice versa. I think you've asked for that of me. Like I need you to take some time, Like take a walk, have lunch with that friend whatever it is, but do the things that help.
Speaker 2:Or talk to someone. Go get a therapist, resolve that issue. You lose your patience too quickly. Work on that Like I think those are the more you know that's an expensive option but it is something that I think a lot of us need to do is to process some of these things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think one of the things to think about, you know, oftentimes people think about well, we need to do this for our kids, and I think that that is very true, but also you need to do it for your relationship. Like like you're, like I so often times like.
Speaker 1:think about wanting to be a good parent, not just for the sake of your kids, but for the sake of your relationship with your partner, because when you are parenting, like in sync and like in a way that feels good to you both, like you will feel more connected as a couple.
Speaker 2:I think it's again and I've said it. I was whispering it under you, but also for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah and for yourself.
Speaker 2:I mean, we parent our kids out of how we parent ourself. You know, our external voice is our internal voice and just as a person, we deserve that kindness too, we deserve, and our best self is our best partner is our best parent. It is all of those things.
Speaker 1:And so I think that you know the idea here is.
Speaker 2:Our whole self maybe not best self, our whole best self.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah think about parenting as vitally important to the wellness of your kids, to the wellness of your whole self and to the wellness of your partner relationship. Today's show was produced by Aaron and Steven Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents, and remember, working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.