Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
What Happened to Our Sex Life: Intimacy After Baby
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What happens to intimacy when children enter the picture? Many parents find themselves asking this question, and we're here to provide some insights. Join us, Dr. Stephen and Erin Mitchell, as we untangle the complex web of maintaining a healthy sex life post-kids. Through the relatable journey of Whitney and Rupal, we highlight the challenges that can strain intimacy, such as exhaustion and body image concerns, and how these can impact communication and connection between partners.
Understanding how intimacy and communication evolve is crucial for any relationship, especially when life gets busy with kids. We break down the ways partners can impact each other's needs for connection and intimacy. It's not just about gender roles—these dynamics shift and change over time. By examining Whitney and Rupal's story, we offer insight into how recognizing and addressing personal tendencies can strengthen relationships. Reflecting on personal histories can reveal much about our expressions of love and why we seek connection in different ways.
Finally, we explore how conflicts can be transformed into moments of connection. From feeling like the default parent to navigating tricky in-law dynamics, every disagreement holds the potential to deepen understanding between partners. Drawing from our book, "Too Tired to Fight," we provide practical steps to turn conflicts into opportunities for growth. Join our community as we share guidance, support, and stories that can help you enhance your relationship, moving beyond conflict to build stronger bonds.
Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents, a show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken.
Speaker 2:Here are our parents, our dad Dr Stephen Mitchell and our mom Erin Mitchell.
Speaker 1:Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Stephen Mitchell.
Speaker 2:I'm Erin Mitchell.
Speaker 1:And on today's show we want to talk about a question that we hear a lot from couples, and it is what happened to our sex life. Yes, after kids, I should say what happened to our sex life, since having kids is probably the little phrase that I would add.
Speaker 2:Sure, I think that, yes, I think that definitely changes a sex life, I think for as many couples as are talking about this out loud, that do come to talk to us about this are talking with their friends or trying to talk with each other. There are as many maybe I would guess, more couples not talking about this right, but still feeling it because this is a very vulnerable, intimate conversation and I think for a lot of people who weren't comfortable talking about sex.
Speaker 2:Even when you said like after kids, I'm like I think there's probably plenty of couples that are like it was never really great right or like we've never really talked about it, or it was fine, but I still wish we could talk about it. So I think it there's just. It's a big conversation, it's delicate.
Speaker 1:Personal.
Speaker 2:It's fragile, it's very personal and it can be very hurtful.
Speaker 1:And so there are some couples who are like I'm not talking to any of my friends about this, I'm not talking to any professional about this, it's just something that they keep to themselves and wonder about.
Speaker 2:Yes, and probably try not to wonder about, but yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's true, and so I think that what we want to do is we'll paint a common image that we see between partners and walk through a conversation that we generally try to have with partners who come in asking this question hey, what happened to our sex life after kids and before kids? Here's a little scenario. So Whitney and Rupal have no sex life since having kids, and they have a five and a three-year-old. Think about that.
Speaker 1:For five years, they have felt like their sex life has been virtually non-existent. Have they had sex in the last five years? Yes, but it feels like they can go weeks, even months, without having sex, and this does not feel okay for either of them. But you know the story they're so busy, they're so tired, they're so overwhelmed, they're so touched out, so self-conscious about their body, so tired of someone needing something from them or so tired of having to give something of themselves to another person. That sex, it just feels like something they used to do and enjoy when they weren't so flooded by their new reality of parenting. Do you want to jump in there?
Speaker 2:Yes, and I do think I mean you said it this is the most common, but I do think that for every couple just like this and I just have to have a caveat I know I'm myself.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:There are the people that all of those things are true, but the one thing I still really want is to feel like you want me. In a way, I feel like that is with sex.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Wouldn't me. In a way, I feel like that is with sex, right.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't it be great if, in the midst of being so tired, so overwhelmed, so exhausted, and usually that's one partner feels that way and the other partner doesn't, I think, or one partner expresses it or one partner wants to express it. Anyway, I'm just saying go ahead, okay okay, so we're back to the story now. So do they? They do RuPaul and Whitney love each other? Yes, do. They work well as a team and still have fun together.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Are they as connected and close as they would like? No, Would their sex life be different if they felt more connected? Probably. Whitney and RuPaul are like a lot of couples. They know sex is important in their relationship, but they don't know how to let it be important in the midst of their parenting lives. It feels like an insurmountable problem that neither one knows how to solve and neither one can talk about without both of them getting defensive, feeling misunderstood and things feeling worse. Typically for Whitney and Rupal, the misunderstanding goes something like this Whitney says hey, you're looking good today.
Speaker 2:I like how you put a little voice there.
Speaker 1:Hey, you're looking good today. How about we go spend some time together while the kids are distracted?
Speaker 2:I'll be Rupal. Rupal responds Are you kidding me? Right now, we haven't seen each other all day and this morning, before you left, we were fighting. I don't want to have sex with you.
Speaker 1:Fine, excuse me for just wanting to connect a little and try and have some fun together.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right, I'm the problem.
Speaker 1:Why would I want to have sex when we can't even have a conversation about who's making breakfast in the morning? Okay, rupal, we'll wait until we can have a 45-minute conversation about who should be making breakfast, and that will be a real turn-on for both of us. I'm sure we'll end up having sex after that conversation Scene.
Speaker 2:That's a good script. I think it's very relatable.
Speaker 1:Thank, you very much. Well done.
Speaker 2:I always like it when you compliment the script, because that feels so relatable and frankly I think I could be and I think most couples we talk to anyway could be both partners at any given moment, which I think is what makes it really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think and to your point, if what is so challenging about this conversation is that there is there's so much tension already in terms of sex hasn't been good, or sex has felt confusing, that to even try and talk about it, to initiate a conversation about it or to initiate sex itself, it usually just goes poorly and then further affirms how the couple feels about oh, this is what our sex life is now, and I think that something that's really important to remember is having kids changes everything and especially it changes a couple's sex life. And I'm not meaning it in a negative way, that having kids is negative and changes everything. It in a negative way, that having kids is negative and changes everything. It just brings your couple relationship into a unique context that you have to, in a sense, renegotiate and renavigate all kinds of things, and sex is one of them. So I think a lot of couples come and they're like some of them might not have had great sex lives before, others might Go ahead.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's about because great sex lives like that's a whole worms, right. But I think the point is having context, having some sort of outline for good conversations about sex, because, frankly, that is a good sex life.
Speaker 1:We're able to talk about it freely, we are able to yeah, but I don't know if a lot of people think about it that way. I think a lot of people. When they come, they're like sex felt easy. It didn't feel so challenging to find time for it. It felt like we could. If we wanted to have sex, we wanted to have sex. Our libidos felt a little more active. It wasn't so challenging to even broach the topic. I think a lot of people don't know how to talk about sex.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That is a whole nother. That's a whole nother thing, that's a whole nother conversation.
Speaker 2:I think, I think, the only thing I'm trying to say is I think what kids does is very often it highlights some of the challenges that were maybe there that weren't so challenging because there was capacity there was time there was space that you could, or it just didn't matter as much, correct? Yeah, you can flex that. Oh, it didn't go all the night. No big deal, we've got tomorrow. That is not true in parenting.
Speaker 1:And I think that's some of the things that it heightens in parenting is that feeling of being wanted and that feeling of being understood and known, and when those things, which I think are two really important parts of sex in parenting, highlights that's not happening.
Speaker 2:And then that does impact the sex life or happening in the ways we want.
Speaker 1:Whereas before kids it maybe just wasn't so front and center.
Speaker 2:Gotcha.
Speaker 1:So I think it's important for couples to realize couples having difficulty talking about having sex.
Speaker 2:Renavigating their sex life.
Speaker 1:Post kids is something every couple has to do.
Speaker 2:That is normal.
Speaker 1:It is to be expected, so if you're like man, I think we can skip that. I'm going to tell you you're wrong. Every couple that has had kids has to renegotiate and renavigate this gets to, I would just say they better.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not trying to be I know yes, they get to yes, it's an opportunity right you feel like I was speaking too negatively. No, I think it's just oh, you have to do this. No, we get to get to do this because we are different people, honestly, different bodies, different situation. So this is a conversation we get, we have the privilege of having.
Speaker 1:Everyone knows Erin is nicer than I am, Because I'm like I don't care, I wouldn't be, I don't feel like I think you have to do it too. You have to do it if you want things to be different. But we can say you get to have to do it. How's that?
Speaker 2:Or have to get to. You have to get to do it.
Speaker 1:Another thing is that after having kids, your time changes, your physiology changes, your needs change, what physical touch feels like changes, what helps one another connect changes. All of that is related to sex as well, and so I think part of this is just trying to say this is normal. But because it's normal, you do get to think about how you're going to navigate this changing context and how it impacts sex.
Speaker 2:Sure, I completely agree. I think that we could do, we could break down each one of those and have a whole separate podcast on all of that. What springs to mind and I know we're going to get to this is when you and I are having a conversation lately, stephen and I shocker to no one, I'm sure when we watch a TV show, when we watch a TV show, or either of us does, or we are reading a book and it's there's a couple dynamic present.
Speaker 2:We talk about it and this and that and something you said recently. It was like you know where I love to live in one of your novels, aaron, where the guy can never mess up, like he just can't miss because basically Aaron's writing this story and so I get to write. And I think that this is one of those things like where sex it feels like if we are only living in our heads about it and we aren't talking about this, we aren't even with ourselves trying to understand the story we're telling in our minds. Even with ourselves trying to understand the story we're telling in our minds we don't get to have a dynamic conversation about for you to say, oh, you feel like you could only never not mess up in my mind.
Speaker 1:Oh man, in that fantasy book you're reading, yeah, and there's a thousand hilarious reels in the world about that.
Speaker 2:Don't fall too in love with your leading man in your novel, but it's too late.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's. You can say the book. Well, there's a thousand of them though, right Right.
Speaker 2:I think. I just mean, are any of the TV shows that they're either getting it all wrong or they're getting it all right? So we hate that person and we love this? Person and real relationships aren't like that. They aren't. They're complicated and they're sticky, and you do have to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think even that, like, what all changes? Everything, yeah, day to day, afternoon to evening, it all changes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I think. So what do we do when Whitney and Rupal come and talk to us and this is the they're like. This is the kind of conversation we have. I think there's two things that how we frame it is and this isn't always true. These are categories just to try to be helpful, but it usually pans out this way that generally, within a couple relationship, there is usually a partner who is in the place where I need sex to connect and another partner who's in this place of I need to feel connected to have sex, and that is not a gender-based thing, because I think a lot of people would be like oh yeah, it's totally in a mixed gender couple, it's the man who's I need sex to connect. That is not always true, and when a mixed gender couple, it's the man who's I need sex to connect.
Speaker 1:That is not always true, and when a mixed gender couple, it's always the woman who's I need to feel connected to have sex. That is not always true, but I think that those two states or ways of approaching sex do present themselves a lot to us and our question would be like where do you fall? So, if we think of Whitney and Rupal, Whitney seems to fall into the category of I need sex to connect and Rupal falls into I need to feel connected to have sex, because one of the things Rupal was saying is how do you expect us to have sex, whitney, when we were just having a disagreement earlier this morning, I need. And then Whitney's response was like oh, so we need to sit down and chat for 45 minutes so that we can feel close and connected and then have sex.
Speaker 1:And so this dynamic is something that I think happens a lot for couples.
Speaker 2:Yes. I think, though, the other part that I really liked about this script, though, is because all that really has to happen. So I think, though, the other part that I really liked about this script, though, is because all that really has to happen. So, yes, this people couples do trend to fall into one of these or the other, but all that has to happen for this to shift is one person needs to shift out of it. All that would have to happen. I already forgot Whitney was. I need sex to connect.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Whitney would have to be like I'd like to feel or no. Rupal could approach Whitney and say would have to be like I'd like to feel or no. Rupal could approach Whitney and say hey, how about now?
Speaker 1:And Whitney would be like I don't oh.
Speaker 2:I don't know, not right now.
Speaker 1:It doesn't often take a whole lot for that to shift that who's in which column there. But then how these get is so, when there's a fight, that I need sex to connect, yeah, which is true Like that is, and, as you said, I think everyone can operate in that place. We might trend towards different things, but everyone can operate in that place. Oftentimes that state gets mischaracterized as you want too much sex.
Speaker 2:Or you only want sex, or all you want is sex.
Speaker 1:You don't want to connect Like you don't care about me, you don't want me, you just need me and then for the other state of I need to feel connected, to have sex. It can get translated into you never want to have sex.
Speaker 2:There will never be an amount of connection that will lead to you wanting that Yep.
Speaker 1:And so I think that it's good for you to identify in your couple relationship which way you trend. And so I'm going to say, like me personally, I trend in the I need to feel connected to have sex. And I think that one of the things that I've had to learn as we've talked about sex and as we think about this is that sometimes that preference for me can be set aside, because to connect and show care and interest and all of those things in our relationship, you have to be able to switch out of these things to try and meet your partner where they're at, but you first of all need to know where you are at as an individual.
Speaker 2:I think yes, so I think that both of these and I think this is what you're saying, I think I'm just going to say it in a different way- yeah, cause you're looking at me like what I don't, what are you?
Speaker 1:what are you talking about?
Speaker 2:So I think that all of these are story-based. I think that all of these are informed by our history and it doesn't matter what your history is. If you've it doesn't matter. You have a story that informs how you feel wanted and how you express desire and want. We all do, Everybody does.
Speaker 1:I'll use a personal example because I don't mind. So I think that one of the reasons I probably trend more towards I need to feel connected to have sex is because I grew up in an environment where I was surprised all the time by my caregiver's needs, and what that felt like is they had a posture towards me where it felt like what they were trying to do was just take stuff from me, their emotions, the way they wanted things. It was a very kind of rigid, authoritarian environment. So it was like you do what I say, how I say it, and I think that what that did is that felt very much like I was there for you, for what my caregivers needed. So translate that into sex.
Speaker 1:So if a partner comes to me and says, hey, I want to have sex, hey, let's have sex, that to me based on my story, shuts me down because I'm like whoa, you can't just come here and take something very personal my body, sexuality.
Speaker 1:You can't just come here and say that you demand that and want that, even though we're in a partnered relationship and that makes sense, that, yes, that's part of the relationship. What that does is it causes me to want more of a connection, more of a hey, we're in a relationship, hey, we care about each other. It's not just give me something that I want or need. So when I say, like, laying that part aside, I think in a healthy relationship, one of the things that I am trying to access and remind is that's not the kind of relationship you and I have. You're not trying to come in and take something from me so I can say, I can say, if you were to come to me and say, hey, let's have sex, it's not, oh no, like you're violating me, it's wait a second. This is a different kind of relationship. That, that movement towards me from Aaron, means something different. I experienced that differently.
Speaker 2:So I think what I love about that and without getting too into the weeds on this specific but that is right, that's exactly what I was trying, Because we can't just lay aside the things that make us feel safe. We have to work through them, understand them, process them. It's not just okay, I got to just lay aside what I want or what I need or what would make me feel safe in this. Yeah, no, yeah.
Speaker 1:You have to be aware of what the stories are so that you can know how to interact with one another. And that's what mutually respected Right and each of you in your couple relationship probably trend towards one of these ways of thinking about sex for a reason, and that's all. You have to know that so that you can interact with one another. Back to Whitney and Rupal in terms of okay, so they've had this conversation, they've run into the same kind of issue that they've run into. I think that for them, what they're trying to recognize, let's say, they have some awareness of their roles, how they fall into things.
Speaker 1:This is what this could maybe look like for them, where Rupal might then come back to Whitney and be like hey, whitney, I missed it earlier when you asked to have sex. I know sex helps you feel connected and you were just trying to be close. I wasn't feeling close and I shut you down. Whitney hears that. Yeah, it is so frustrating to try and figure out when we're both going to be in the right mood to have sex. It feels like it will never happen. Rupal, I get that, whitney. I also get that you always are more open and ready for sex after we have had some time together and feel close. Rupal, true, I appreciate that that conversation right there is Whitney and Rupal understanding the stories, understanding who they are in those stories and repairing that conversation.
Speaker 2:And respecting who they both are. No one has to feel bad about themselves, or no one is blaming the other for feeling very differently about it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that is what we're trying to get to. Whatever stuck place you have around, sex is important, it matters. It is a stuck place, it's a circular conversation for a reason that is being missed and we can't just force through that. That is not long-term, or even short-term, healthy at all.
Speaker 1:Right and I would say again, the only way Whitney and Rupal can have that conversation is because they've had that deeper conversation of Today's show was produced by Sarah Kuhn, stephen Mitchell and Aaron Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Hey, before we wrap up today, we want to remind you that conflict isn't the enemy of a healthy relationship. It's actually the path to deeper connection.
Speaker 2:And that's exactly what we explore in our book. Too Tired to Fight. In the book, we break down the 13 essential conflicts that every couple needs to have to keep their relationship strong. We guide you through each one, showing you how to move from feeling stuck in endless arguments to using those moments as a chance to connect and grow stronger together.
Speaker 1:Whether you're struggling with feeling like the default parent navigating in-laws, or just trying to be understood by your partner, Too Tired to Fight, gives you the tools to turn those pain points into connection points.
Speaker 2:If you want to dive deeper into what we've been discussing on the podcast, the book is a great companion. It's filled with real life examples, practical strategies and step-by-step guidance on how to have those essential conflicts without feeling like banging your head against the wall with the same fight over and over.
Speaker 1:So, if you're ready to stop fighting and start connecting, you can grab your copy of Too Tired to Fight on our website, amazon or wherever you get books. And remember every conflict is just an opportunity waiting to be turned into connection.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1:Thank you, oh oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh oh look, these are the stories that are informing why I approach sex the way I do, and so I think that, in that, when you know that, if you think about it, that conversation really can't just be a five-minute conversation and be done the way they had it and I think that both of them do as you were saying, Erin they walk away feeling respected.
Speaker 2:And that's what's them do, as you were saying, and they walk away feeling respected, and that's what's massively important, and so I think that Go ahead. I think the reason that respect is important outside of, we want to be respectful people, but that is what continues to soften our protective places and say oh, you are someone I'm willing to risk this kind of vulnerability with. You. Are someone I'm willing to risk this kind of vulnerability with? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so those kinds of interactions are the things that kind of help melt the stuck frozen places of Whitney and Rupert married for years.
Speaker 1:This can begin to melt those things so that their relationship does, and their sexual relationship does change. It doesn't have to stay the same way. I think, too, one of the things as you were saying, aaron, earlier, it's sometimes hard just for couples to even talk about sex, to even talk about sex with their partners, to have these kinds of conversations, and so I do think that there are some ways to even initiate a conversation. You don't have to have had a conflict to have this conversation Even better, right, yeah, yeah, why not? Why not be preemptive? And so I think, just a few ways that you could maybe lead in with your partner. Let's say you've listened to this podcast. You want to lead in. You could say so.
Speaker 1:I heard this podcast on what happens to couples sex life after kids. I felt like it described us pretty well. Would you want to listen to it and talk about it? I know you want things to be different with our sex life, and so do I, so you can throw us under the bus. You can be like these people were talking about it. What do you think? Could we talk about it?
Speaker 2:And I can already hear like someone's going to say I want our sex life to be different. My partner's fine with our sex life, just like the way it is, then don't say that. Don't say I know, you and I both want to be different. You don't. Our scripts are suggestions.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Take them. And then the part that you're like I could never say that then don't. You, really don't have to, that these are, if only to give you something to say no to. Oh no, I couldn't say that. Great. What would you say?
Speaker 1:Say that yeah, and so I think what we would say to most couples, to any couple who comes to us and they ask us a question what happened to our sex life After having kids? We would say well, it changed. It's different now, and you have to learn a new way of communicating with each other about sex, because your context is different. And that's not bad. That is actually something that can help you and your partner grow and feel close and even more connected as you navigate how you have sex and what that looks like in your relationship. Hey, before we wrap up today, we want to remind you that conflict isn't the enemy of a healthy relationship. It's actually the path to deeper connection.
Speaker 2:And that's exactly what we explore in our book. Too Tired to Fight. In the book, we break down the 13 essential conflicts that every couple needs to have to keep their relationship strong. We guide you through each one, showing you how to move from feeling stuck in endless arguments to using those moments as a chance to connect and grow stronger together.
Speaker 1:Whether you're struggling with feeling like the default parent navigating in-laws, or just trying to be understood by your partner, Too Tired to Fight, gives you the tools to turn those pain points into connection points.
Speaker 2:If you want to dive deeper into what we've been discussing on the podcast, the book is a great companion. It's filled with real-life examples, practical strategies and step-by-step guidance on how to have those essential conflicts without feeling like banging your head against the wall with the same fight over and over.
Speaker 1:So, if you're ready to stop fighting and start connecting, you can grab your copy of Too Tired to Fight on our website, amazon or wherever you get books. And remember every conflict is just an opportunity waiting to be turned into connection.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1:Today's show was produced by Sarah King, Stephen Mitchell and Aaron Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening.