Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
Navigating Nighttime Duties and Differing Parenting Styles
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Unlock the secrets to a stronger parenting partnership as we explore the intricate interplay of trust and communication in relationships. What happens when differing parenting styles collide, especially during nighttime duties? Join us to uncover how real-life couple Devante and Steph navigate these challenges with their son, Tavon. Through their journey, you'll gain insights into recognizing underlying beliefs that fuel conflicts and learn strategies for building a harmonious parenting environment.
In this episode, we highlight the power of understanding and validating your partner's feelings to transform disagreements into opportunities for connection. Drawing from practical examples and resources like "Too Tired to Fight," we share actionable advice on handling common relationship tensions, whether it's feeling like the default parent or dealing with in-law dynamics. As Devante and Steph work towards a more supportive partnership, we emphasize the profound impact a healthy relationship can have on parenting. Prioritize connection over conflict and discover how every challenge can lead to growth and deeper trust.
Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents, a show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken.
Speaker 2:Here are our parents, our dad Dr Stephen Mitchell and our mom Erin Mitchell.
Speaker 1:Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Stephen Mitchell, I'm Erin Mitchell and on today's show we want to talk about what do you do if you feel that your partner doesn't trust your parenting or you don't trust your partner's parenting?
Speaker 2:Sure, it's really, really common. I would say this is something we talk to couples about all of the time.
Speaker 1:Right. And so before we were getting ready for the show, we were sitting down, we're kind of walking through the case example and Erin kind of read through it, and then she turned to me and said Ooh, okay, what were you thinking when you said that?
Speaker 2:I think it's really good. I think it's a really, really excellent case example. I think what makes it feel like an oh is how good good it is, because it feels very, very, very close to the kinds of conversations we do talk to couples about, and they're tricky. It's not super obvious. We're not talking about some massive break in trust. We're talking about the little breaks that lead to really feeling like I don't trust you or I can't trust you. How could you not trust me? And it feels like oh.
Speaker 1:And you said you're like it's not one of the things. You said, it's not obvious. First of all, we're going to disappoint a lot of people. A lot of people are going to feel maybe like, oh, I don't like that, or that's that's hard for me to hear. But you also said it's not like in this case example any partner necessarily did something quote, unquote wrong.
Speaker 2:Correct. I don't think it's one of these very obvious examples of oh, it's so clear that Steven broke trust and now this is what repair looks like. So yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's the preface? Yeah, so that's the preface. How about we just hop right on in and see where it takes us?
Speaker 2:So I do think, in light of all of that, and I think even the reason we bring this up is to pay attention. As you listen, you know like we, we do suggest pay attention to your body. What does it feel like? What is it noticing?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Are there things you don't like the way they're being represented? That's just as important as feeling like I love that. Yes, that's exactly what I feel, just like oh.
Speaker 1:I don't like that. Very valuable information. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here we go. Devante and Steph are fuming at one another. They're arguing again about who got less sleep and who's doing more of the parenting on top of working full time.
Speaker 1:Tavon, their six-year-old, woke up in the middle of the night because he had a bad dream. It was Devante's night to handle any of the wake-ups that happened for the kids. Devante hopped up and went to Tavon's room. He talked with Tavon and said hey, man, what's going on? Okay, I'm here, go back to sleep. We don't want to wake up mom. Tavon didn't respond very well to this and started calling for us mom. Steph hears all of this and starts to feel her ability to go back to sleep slipping out of reach. We've all been there. It's a terrible feeling, but Steph is there right now. Devante keeps repeating Tavon, be quiet, stop calling for your mom, I'm here. Eventually, steph gets out of bed because she knows she's not going back to sleep and comes in the room to calm the situation. Devante expresses frustration because he was handling the situation and Steph simply responds yeah, that is what it sounded like. Devante leaves the room, steph stays with Tavon and everyone has a terrible night's sleep.
Speaker 1:In the morning, devante and Steph continue the conflict that started the previous night. Devante says I don't know what I did wrong. I got up, I went to Tavon and I was working through the situation. I can't help that he was calling for you. You were the one that came in and didn't follow the plan we set up. Steph, do you honestly feel like you were handling it? You just kept telling him to stop being upset and go back to sleep. That is not going to work for him. It feels like you gave a pretty poor effort and then just left me to handle it anyway. Devante, you didn't even give me a chance to work it out with him. It is really frustrating to me how you jump into situations like that so quickly, and don't let me be apparent.
Speaker 2:So as much I mean I think I said it maybe two, maybe three times that it's not obvious. I think there are some obvious moments where we can see things turn one way or another, but I think always what we're missing in this is context. Right, Like we don't understand the story.
Speaker 2:Right, but I do think that any time we feel like we have to jump into a situation, it is because very often maybe not always, but I would say really close to always there is something rooted there. There has been a point or a story or something that says I need to handle this.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Now, whether or not that's true, it's tricky Sure.
Speaker 1:There's two things that are both important to Devante and Steph here. Devante's like we had an agreement on who was going to be doing what in this situation, and I'm following through, I'm trying to carry that out. I feel like you, steph, are not, and Steph, from her end, she's like yes, you've jumped in, but the way you jumped in is also very important, and it doesn't feel like it matches what I would do or what I think would work for Tavon, and so I think that if you're going to jump in, I'd love for you to jump in in a way that feels congruent with those desires. There's a disagreement, and I think if you were like okay, how, like, in a perfect world, how would this go? Go ahead?
Speaker 2:Well, I think you can rewind it back to the parts where you feel, or at least where I felt the like moments, which is when Devante says to Tavon don't wake, mom.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:That's energy too. That means that somehow Devante is having this experience in his body of like dude. Help me out.
Speaker 1:Right Sure.
Speaker 2:Don't wake mom, or whatever. I forget exactly how he said it, but that was, that's the basic idea and that that indicates to me that there's energy around this for Devante, which again that means that there are a thousand stories we don't know in this one story?
Speaker 1:Sure, exactly, thousand stories we don't know in this one story. Sure, exactly, exactly, but, and and if you know like they're they're arguing about that multiple things. Like they're arguing about, um, parenting style they're arguing about, well, we made a parenting plan. It's not being kept too. And then we're they're also arguing about, like, this feeling of I tried to take responsibility, no, you dumped responsibility on me. Like like this, this feeling of there's an inequity there, even in, in, in who's doing what.
Speaker 2:And so, and then they're also arguing because they're tired. Yes, it was a miserable night and no one wakes up like yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so if you think about okay, in a perfect world how this would go, is that both would feel that there's an equal shared responsibility of the parenting duties, the who's waking up and who's not. Both would feel that there's a shared philosophy about parenting style, like what we're going to do in parenting moments, and there would be a trust in one another's parenting interactions. So, like I trust that you're going to carry out the plan on how we parent, I trust that you're going to meet the responsibilities that we're sharing. That would be ideal. None of that happened in Devante and Steph's, both of them in their experience. Oftentimes, what happens is there isn't a formalized or intentional conversation about shared responsibility. There's not been an agreed upon strategy for, like this is how we're going to do parenting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because to be honest, I do think the first one happens more often.
Speaker 1:I think more and more and more the division of labor conversations the couples we're talking to, at least and again we talk about this.
Speaker 2:perhaps we're getting a skewed sample. I have no idea, but we talk to couples all of the time that do feel like they are working really hard to have that balance. But it doesn't work if you don't have that second part, which is the shared philosophy, Because I don't care that you're taking 50% of the responsibility. I don't trust how you're going to implement. So no, it doesn't feel like it's off my plate at all. In fact, now it feels like I have to be extra attuned.
Speaker 1:And I think that this is, I mean again all of these there's little podcasts within each of them but this shared parenting philosophy, I think oftentimes for parenting partners not a feeling that they need to sit down and have a formalized plan of attack. So just like, if you think about your budget, it makes all the sense in the world to sit down and like, hey, let's map it out, let's make a plan, let's you know, this is what we're going to do. But oftentimes when it comes to parenting style, like parenting partners don't think about, let's sit down, let's map out a plan for how we want to interact with our kids. A lot of parents say one parent does all the research, or another parent says, well, I just go off of instinct and what feels right, or I just kind of try to do what I experienced, or I try to do exactly the opposite of what I experienced, like that's my philosophy.
Speaker 2:How often is it they're like well, I turned out okay, exactly. And then the partner's like did you, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Did you really? And so there's this idea that, as you are parents and I think that this changes with each stage of parenting too, for your kids, you know, from infant to toddler, to elementary school age, to teenage you have to sit down and develop a plan of action. How do we want to parent? What kind of little human being are we hoping to help mold and send out into the world? And really think through that and then be intentional about evaluating it and assessing it and whether you feel like you're fulfilling that plan or this is what's working, this isn't what's working. Where can we make some shifts? Where can we keep doing what we're doing because we feel good about it? And I think that oftentimes that's just not how any of us think about parenting.
Speaker 2:I don't think a lot of couples agree with that.
Speaker 1:Sure, maybe there's one partner who's like we should do this, the other, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think most of the people I talk to individual clients, couple clients, this, the other, yeah. Yeah, I think most of the people I talk to individual clients, couple clients, like I think a lot of us feel like, yes, that's what I want to do, but what that costs is some self, um awareness, some um willingness frankly to think about what you liked, about how you were parented and what you didn't like, because we don't want to be reactive, and even the idea of I don't like because we don't want to be reactive, and even the idea of I don't want to do anything like it.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a reaction.
Speaker 2:What we want is choice, but I think at the base, at least in the way I'm thinking about this, is we have to respect each other, and I think very often one partner I'm going to say the Stephs in this scenario have a way that they want Tavon to be interacted with, especially in the middle of the night when they wake up scared and the person who has sort of the more attuned or present or wants to give that kid something specific like their love, compassion, presence.
Speaker 2:that partner has to feel respected in that need, because that's not just a well. I hope that's how it would go and it doesn't matter to me if it doesn't. It's a need, it's a I will not Steph's not going back to sleep if she doesn't feel that Tavon is getting the kind of soothing he needs in that moment.
Speaker 1:It's not going to happen, right. And I would say, and you know, as we're going to kind of unravel this a little bit and kind of get more into the conversation of how Devante and Steph resolve it.
Speaker 1:It's not that Devante doesn't want Tavon to have that experience either. There's just, in some ways, like you're tired. Maybe you're not aware of how you're sounding yeah, maybe you're not aware of how you're sounding, or maybe you feel like you're you are offering that. Maybe you feel like you're offering it in a way and it doesn't feel like enough from a partner.
Speaker 2:And that's where the conversation piece is so important. Right, because if Devante is feeling like nothing I could ever do is enough, why not Like how? How is that the case? How did that come to be? What are the stories? That informed that. And then the opposite, steph. Why not? Why does it feel different? Maybe where has trust been broken? Where you do feel like you have to pay attention and you can't rest and you don't trust. How that situation?
Speaker 1:So what can Devante and Steph do to have this conversation in a way that doesn't feel conflicted, and maybe it goes something like this Maybe you can do the maybe you can do the Steph part.
Speaker 2:Sure, well, I wouldn't have to jump in if it felt, if I felt like you were interacting with Tavon, in a way that felt good to him and that I agreed with.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't like that comment, but clearly we see what happened differently, what felt off for you and how I approached Tavon. Now can I pause just for a second? What Devante is needing to do in this moment is not get defensive, not say that's unfair. You always jump in, not continuing to double down on what he's saying to stuff, but say like, okay, wait a second. If that's what stuff is feeling, I can say I don't like. I don't like what you just said. But help me, help me understand a little bit more.
Speaker 2:We actually have this comment a lot when we start a sentence like this with the I don't like it or I disagree.
Speaker 2:People say why lead with that Because that can make the steps in this situation feel defensive, opposite. But here's the thing we have got to in real time, be able to soothe our own nervous system. And so Devante needs and maybe he doesn't need to say that it doesn't really matter what he says, but somehow he has to be able to say he has to, similar to what Steph's wanting him to do with Tavon. He has to be able to tell himself your feeling of not liking. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You don't like it, you don't have to like it. We're not trying to tell you. Pretend like you like it. Tell.
Speaker 1:Steph, she's right, no, that's not.
Speaker 2:We are not trying to have Devante paint.
Speaker 1:Stuff his feelings or not acknowledge a frustration, his real experience.
Speaker 2:Right, stuff his feelings or not acknowledge a frustration, his real experience right, but we are and we talk about this all the time.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's one of the big things that we talk about in our book. Right, he has to suspend that for a moment.
Speaker 2:Right, but you can't suspend what you don't know. So you say I don't like it, okay, but I believe you and I want to understand. This is it, and that's what he did, it really.
Speaker 1:And so Devante says what felt off for you and how I approached Tavon.
Speaker 2:Well, I get that we both want Tavon to stop being upset, but I feel like, rather than try to understand why he was upset, you just told him to stop being upset.
Speaker 1:I tried to reassure him that I was there with him and that he didn't need to cry anymore. Sure, Remember, I said. I said like, hey, I'm here. I'm here, buddy, you even said what's going on? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, but I think it's useful. What's going on? Did you have a bad dream? Are you thirsty? Do you need to go to the bathroom? You know some sort of understanding before you tell him to stop, or maybe without ever telling him to stop.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was tired. I could have taken some more time with him, but what do we do about you swooping in? I still felt like we could have figured it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I see it. I didn't give you a chance to work it out, and part of that is I didn't trust you would. I do feel like I could give you more space now that we've had this conversation.
Speaker 1:I would appreciate that and I can keep in mind what would feel most comforting to you in that interaction and honestly, to me as well, next time it happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think what has to happen is this Steph has to believe that Devante doesn't just want to appease Steph, he's not just going to Tavon to keep him quiet.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:He's going to Tavon to be with Tavon.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I mean they even said. But they both said we want him to stop being upset. I get that. Of course we want our kids to never be upset. Right, but like, really, what we want is like buddy, you're upset and I'm with you. And currently in their situation, steph doesn't trust that and again, if this was a one off, this night would not have mattered. It's a blip. It's when these nights add up and then it wakes up.
Speaker 1:Well, these interactions add up Like it adds up in how you responded to Tavon getting out the door or how he responded to Him not liking his socks, felt in his shoes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I think again, like granted, like you know, a lot of people then also are like oh well, you know this isn't how conversations go and you know this would never happen. And I think what we're saying is correct. This is not how conversations often go for parenting partners, because it is a learned skill. What this is about is teaching you a new skill and a new way to talk to each other, so that you do talk this way to one another. And I think that one of the things you know, as we mentioned earlier, how this would go is there's an understanding of the shared responsibility, there's an under a same pageness on the parenting style, and then there's a trust in the partners to enact the responsibilities and the parenting style and, I think, go ahead.
Speaker 2:I just have to say I think that, with the asterisk being on, that deep trust in the parenting style, because I think a lot of us have and not on purpose, but a long memory of the times you went in at bedtime and it didn't go well. So Tavon wakes up. I know it's not my night, but I'm like it's not going to go well, I might as well just wake up. It's not going to go well. So Tavon wakes up. I know it's not my night, but I'm like it's not going to go well, like I'm going to. I might as well just wake up. It's not going to go well. That's not great.
Speaker 1:Well, and I also think, though, so I like looking at Devante like I think, from his standpoint, he's like I did, like I did offer that, hey, I'm here, Like we're giving Devante the benefit of the doubt that's him being like I'm trying to not just tell him to be quiet right away. I think what he was able to acknowledge is I didn't spend long enough there. I went more immediately to hey, let's stop, let's calm down.
Speaker 2:But both things, I think.
Speaker 1:So Steph being awake and being like it's not going to go well, and Devante rushing too quickly to like don't wake mom, right, right and is an indicator from both sides that there is something that needs attention and in the history of Right of the parenting alignment which is Devante feels like Steph swoops in and doesn't allow him to have parenting interactions with Tavon, but I would also assume that Devante feels like I am with you. Sure.
Speaker 2:I am. I mean, how often do we hear that from partners we talk to Like I am a part, Like I do trust in our parenting? It's not just your parenting anymore, but there have probably been stories where it felt like it wasn't and so I think those are the things that have to. Trust gets broken so easily and takes time and intention to repair, and I think a lot of times parents want to rush through that and say, okay, trust me, now I'm with you. Well, I don't.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's the middle of the night. Or you're frustrated or you're late.
Speaker 1:You're gonna lose your mind well, and I think how trust gets built is by having conversations like davante and steph had about like, hey, this didn't, this didn't go the way either one of us wanted yes, um, we both have something in that interaction that we feel frustrated about or that we wish was different. And then there was a mutual respect for one another and being able to have the conversation in terms of like, yeah, okay, I did swoop in. Yes, there was a reason. Okay, I see your reason, but also, could you not swoop in? Yes, I won't feel like I need to swoop in. If, if you could interact with Tavon in this way, that would help me feel better. Okay, I get that. I didn't do that. I can try to do that next time. I mean, that's how trust gets built and then having the experience of it going, you know better or going well next time and then noting that and and celebrating and then building on that, yeah yes, and, and so I I think that these are.
Speaker 1:I think why this is challenging is because there's so many of these interactions, I think in a, in a day, um we have all day long right to have them right and, and you you know, can you talk about every one of them? No, but what you're wanting?
Speaker 2:to do is oh my gosh. None of us want to. That's exactly why we want to have this conversation, so we don't have to.
Speaker 1:Right, but usually something sparks up, you end up talking about it and again the idea is to be able to hear what feels challenging for each partner, how they feel like that trust has been broken, and not to say like, well, you're wrong or well, you know what it's broken because you did that. None of that is successful, simply saying like, okay, this is how it was, this is what was happening for me, this is what was happening for you, this is what we need to do next time for us both to feel that we're trusting each other.
Speaker 2:Right, I agree. I think that when this conversation is had like really, really had, there has been forgiveness for the past breaks and trust, mutual breaks and trust, or if they're not mutual, but there is a commitment to moving forward, then I think that conversation can go a lot shorter even than what you just said, which is I didn't like that, I jumped in.
Speaker 1:Sorry.
Speaker 2:And it's like thank you, or like I rushed it, I'm sorry, thank you.
Speaker 1:And that's the whole thing. Yeah, that's true, and I do think, practically, in order to be able to have conversations like that, you have to have a sense of shared responsibility and same-pageness in terms of your parenting style, and if you don't have that, that's the place for you and your partner to start Like. We need to get on the same page about sharing the responsibilities and we both need to sit down and get on the same page about what do we want to do as parents.
Speaker 2:And I think, the way to find out if that's you, because most, most of us, of course, we trust our parenting partner. So that question alone is like well, of course Devante and Steph trust each other, like any couple we work with like of course I trust them, or maybe largely of course, but like in the tiny things, and I think that this is a great way to see if maybe there have been some breaks, micro breaks, in that trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So do you and your partner have a sense of the shared responsibilities? Do you and your partner have a sense of same-pageness in terms of your parenting? Yeah, if you don't, you need that and then you can build upon. How are we going to express these things in our relationship and trust each other as we do? Hey, before we wrap up today, we want to remind you that conflict isn't the enemy of a healthy relationship. It's actually the path to deeper connection we wrap up today.
Speaker 2:we want to remind you that conflict isn't the enemy of a healthy relationship. It's actually the path to deeper connection, and that's exactly what we explore in our book Too Tired to Fight. In the book, we break down the 13 essential conflicts that every couple needs to have to keep their relationship strong. We guide you through each one, showing you how to move from feeling stuck in endless arguments to using those moments as a chance to connect and grow stronger together.
Speaker 1:Whether you're struggling with feeling like the default parent navigating in-laws, or just trying to be understood by your partner, Too Tired to Fight, gives you the tools to turn those pain points into connection points.
Speaker 2:If you want to dive deeper into what we've been discussing on the podcast, the book is a great companion. It's filled with real-life examples, practical strategies and step-by-step guidance on how to have those essential conflicts without feeling like banging your head against the wall with the same fight over and over.
Speaker 1:So, if you're ready to stop fighting and start connecting, you can grab your copy of Too Tired to Fight on our website, amazon or wherever you get books. And remember every conflict is just an opportunity waiting to be turned into connection.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents, and remember, working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting Good parenting.