Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
Good Sex-An Interview with Author Dr. Candice Nicole Hargons
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Ever wonder how parenting impacts your intimate relationship? Join us for a compelling conversation with renowned sex expert Dr. Candice Nicole Hargons as she shares insights from her latest book, "Good Sex." She dives into the challenges of maintaining a healthy sexual relationship amidst the responsibilities of parenthood. Dr. Hargons, an associate professor at Emory University, offers a compassionate perspective on navigating the changing dynamics of intimacy. She emphasizes the importance of communication and renegotiating relationship terms as couples journey through different stages of parenting.
Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents a show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Here are our parents our dad, dr Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, erin Mitchell. Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Stephen Mitchell.
Speaker 1:I'm Erin Mitchell and we are excited for you to join us today for a special interview with I'm Dr Stephen Mitchell, I'm Erin Mitchell, and we are excited for you to join us today for a special interview with sex expert Dr Candice Nicole Hargans. Dr Hargans is an award-winning associate professor at Emory University's Rollins School of Public Health, where she studies sexual wellness and liberation.
Speaker 2:With over 70 published articles, Dr Hargens has made substantial contributions to the field, positioning herself as a leading authority in her discipline.
Speaker 1:Her innovative work has been widely recognized and featured in major podcasts and publications such as the Huffington Post, essence, good Housekeeping, women's Health, blavity, cosmopolitan and the New York Times.
Speaker 2:As a thought leader, Dr Hargans continues to shape the conversation around sexual wellness, advocating for liberation and wellness within marginalized communities.
Speaker 1:Her debut book, good Sex, is now available wherever you purchase your books. So let's get right to the interview. Hello, thank you so much for joining us today. Dr Candice Nicole Hargans is with us and we are so so glad to have you on the show.
Speaker 3:Thanks, I'm happy to be here with you guys.
Speaker 2:We have so many questions from our community. I posted this to our social media yesterday because we were talking about sex and intimacy. Well, kind of always we're talking about it, but a lot of questions came up last week and I posted yesterday that we were going to be speaking with you and I don't know how many hundreds of questions we have for you, but hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.
Speaker 1:It's going to be a hot episode. Hot episode for sure.
Speaker 3:What was so hilarious is that I was like where are all these people following me right now? And that was probably what it was. Where are?
Speaker 2:all these people following me right now and that was probably what it was. Well, they're like okay, help us. Is why? Because this is a really, really, really important conversation to be had, but also it's this really big space, I think, of grief and loss for a lot of parenting partners so it matters. This conversation matters so much. We're so grateful you're here. So thank you for coming and thank you for being willing to have all of these talks with us.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:So I think one of the things to start with is one you've recently written a book. It's out called Good Sex and I think it's really important. But like, why? Why did you choose to write this book?
Speaker 3:Oh, my goodness, I wrote the book that I wanted and needed. So I have a one year old, just turned one, and so, on the parenting side of like navigating, like what sex looks like on all those stages, I have an almost six year old and a one year old. Like what sex looks like, on all those stages, I have an almost six-year-old and a one-year-old, and I wrote this while I was pregnant and then breastfeeding the one-year-old, and so I was just writing all the stuff and researching all of the things that I needed to remind myself of, because, as a sex researcher, people just assume that you're like the final boss. So it's like a good reminder for me, in my own voice, of like girl, these are the things that you know that you need to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it is so hard to do them right. So I think some of the standout questions and I think there's some thematic things because, just to be clear, I'm not going to to ask you all I honestly think it was close to like a thousand questions yesterday.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh I love that, uh, but like thematically, couples are tired, couples bodies have changed their own perception of their self has changed, their uh, even I I use this word lightly, I think there's got to be a better one, but like they're like, confidence for how to address some of these changes has changed. And then all of that assumes that they were able to have these kinds of conversations about. This is the kind of sex I like. This is the kind of sex I don't like. This is who I am as a person. This is who I don't want to be as a person that they were able to have those conversations before. So how do you see addressing all of these big, big questions?
Speaker 3:In the small ways. So always take big things in small doses of small bites and I try to frame it in the book of like this is a practice, not like a you're going to do this thing for one day and then magic wand here, you are already fixed.
Speaker 3:It's like you're not broken. You're normal Sex. Sexual desire has ebbs and flows. Arousal all of the things that make up good sex has ebbs and flows normally. And then, when you add kids to the mix, you have to renegotiate those terms again and again and again at each developmental stage of their childhood and your relationship. So if you take it day by day, moment by moment, you have a lot more compassion for yourself and with each other in the process.
Speaker 1:Can you say more to that, candice? Because what you just said, it's a practice, that is something you're doing on an ongoing basis. I think so many times people think about sex as it's this one thing like you know how to do this one thing, like it's this one time thing that you learn how to do and then you're good at sex, you're like a good partner, and there's all these kind of social scripts about can you satisfy your partner, are you considered sexy or a man, whatever how these things get sort of described in our society, and what you just described was not that.
Speaker 2:I would say caricature. Everything you just said is like a caricature.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like an ongoing learning process is what you described. Can you say more about that, because I think that's new for a lot of people.
Speaker 3:I think the way you broke it down is like there are all these cultural recipes is what I call them in the book that create the unseasoned sex menu. So it's like I'm supposed to be good at sex Nobody is good at sex when they start having sex and yet you're magically, through watching porn, supposed to be good at sex, because that's where most people get their sex ed, unfortunately. And then, once you think you're good at sex, you think it's supposed to translate across all partners and, like we get so many ideas about who we should be as the relationship, and so the practice is like every day I'm shifting just a little bit. There are some things that are kind of stable about my character and my personhood, but, like me and my husband have been together 10 years, I'm a different woman than I was 10 years ago and he's a different man than he was 10 years ago, and so each day we're negotiating the practice of who am I as a sexual being? Am I a sexual being today as opposed and that's for him too, I think you you named a lot of the coastal recipes that cis men actually have to contend with about, like having high sexual prowess and desire and like being good at it all the time and having compassion for the partners who are like you know, I'm I'm a guy, but maybe that isn't my thing right now, like maybe my body isn't sitting well with me right now or maybe my mood is.
Speaker 3:You know, struggling right now is a meaningful part of that practice. Similar to, for me, struggling right now is a meaningful part of that practice. Similar to, for me, carrying two kids and having a C-section and my body is a totally different body and like I'm navigating that. But I think the way we navigate it together, like that in between space that we get to create, that's that's where the magic can happen and that's where we can set the rules for ourselves. So our relationship recipes can kind of transgress those cultural recipes, because you're the only two. Perhaps there are more you know, but there are. You're the only two who are navigating it in that moment.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:So so many of the things you said resonated for me, even when you were talking about like um, it's gonna, we're going to be able to satisfy all these different sexual partners, and I was thinking similar to what you said, but I was having that thought at the same time about, like well, stephen and I have been married for 17 years this year. How many different partners have I been. I mean at least 17.
Speaker 1:We have been very different. Each of us yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But honestly, candice, one of the things that came up over and over and over and has come up over and over and over for us is how do we communicate change, even in ourself? And I know it sounds so obvious, because what we would do is like what I would say if I was saying this myself. It's like I'm trying to tell you something about myself, but it feels personal and I'm worried to hurt Steven's feelings Like, hey, this thing that we've done for 17 years hate it, like you know, like and obviously you wouldn't say it that way, but like I think the confusion is like how do we bring these really intimate things up in a way that is constructive, Isn't going to hurt feelings, all of those things?
Speaker 1:And I think even, maybe I would say even deeper in that, something I noticed particularly in mixed gendered couples. A fear for the partner who identifies as a woman to say a difficult thing to their male partner in this idea of likeuring the ego and injuring that social script of you're supposed to be good and have this sexual prowess that is never questioned and a real fear of that story of that recipe as you call it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love the recipe.
Speaker 1:So I think that's even a little deeper layer.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was definitely thematic, it wasn't the only, but yes yeah, something we noticed and so, aaron, you broke down what I articulate in the communication on good sex is communicative.
Speaker 3:The chapter on good sex is communicative, where I say there's research on the three levels of threat that people usually experience when they are going to broach a sexual conversation. And the one is like your threat to self. So if you have a sexual conversation, you're admitting your own inadequacy or a fear about even the way you communicate, a fear that you're not. You know you're not who you thought you were sexually, or that you're changing in ways that you're still. You know you're not who you thought you were sexually, or that you're changing in ways that you're still trying to figure out. And then there's the relationship threat. So you fear that the relationship can't stand this admission or this type, this level of transparency, that you shouldn't have to talk about sex anymore after you've had a conversation or enough conversations about it, and that talking about it makes things worse. That's the relationship threat level. And then there's the partner threat level, where you don't want to hurt your partner's feeling or their ego, as you described, steven. You don't want them to feel inadequate and you don't want them to be angry. And so those three levels of threat are what most people are experiencing when they are needing to have a sex conversation, wanting to have one and don't have it.
Speaker 3:And I say make it meta. Name the thing that you fear before you start the conversation. So me and my husband have a. When we, when we first started dating, we were in long distance relationships, so we would have these long car rides where we come to see each other. We'd just be talking to each other on our commutes and stuff, and that became our time to talk about sex. So we would always, if we're trapped in the car with each other for four hours going somewhere, it's like so what do you think about?
Speaker 3:I think that making it meta is like you know what I'm like a little nervous to talk about. I really want to talk about it with you this. So if you feel that vulnerability that comes up when you're about to be honest in a way that you know might tiptoe on someone's ego or your own fears or relationship fears, name that thing first, like man, and, and when you say it out loud, you're like I don't actually think this, but I feel this, my body feels this. So most of the time we don't actually really believe that our relationship will end forever If we say hey, this position hurts now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But your body is reacting like abort mission.
Speaker 1:This is not going to work. So naming that so I love, I love those three categories. The threat to self-relationship and partner and I think that that is something that we talk a lot about with partners is be willing we kind of talk about it, be willing to have the clunky conversation. In other words, like hey, I've got something to say about sex and I'm kind of afraid that it's going to say something negative about myself, and so I feel a little nervous to say that. And like, if partners knew these three categories like which hey, you're hearing it, everyone right here on this show you know these three categories. Now you can talk to your partner by making it meta just what Candice was saying. Like I, I want to talk to you about sex, and this is the fear. This is the fear. Like I think that that is such a clunky, beautiful, direct way to have this kind of conversation.
Speaker 3:And then you get you kind of you're cause your partner if you've been together for a while. Y'all have been together. You said 17 years, so they know your tells. Anyway, might as well name it Right. It's like I'm. You probably noticed that I'm hedging right now, like in this conversation. Um, it sounds like I'm tiptoeing around something you know like I think the making it meta can go both ways. You can be like I noticed that as you're trying to say this, you keep starting and stopping, so I think it means this. Can I check that out with you? And I like when Brene Brown does that about like non-sex things, so she's kind of like the story I'm telling myself is I'm like okay, this is what I'm noticing. Can I check that out with you just to make sure I'm not wowing? And my husband will be like no, it's not that or yes, it is that, and then we can go from there I think so often because another one of the things I really, really want to get
Speaker 1:into is body image and a new relationship with our body.
Speaker 2:Because I will tell you that, just like a little personal self-reflection, like when I because we all have tells you said that we all have relational tells, we have like these communication tells where I'm like what's happening, but we also have them in sex. Yes, and I have interpreted Steven so many times. I'm like he's not attracted to me, like it must be me and I think, think that there are people and this is a you know a- personal thing like my, so me not wanting to have sex or me not pursuing or me not doing.
Speaker 2:You know kind of yes, I wouldn't yeah, for me, like one of the ways I communicate stories in my head is it must be about me and that's a way I try to get my power and my own control back I'm like, oh, it's me, so I can manage this right, like oh, yeah, but's.
Speaker 2:I would say most of the time not at all what's happening, but the only way to find that out is to say that. But do you know? The last thing I want to say ever out loud is I'm feeling really insecure already and I feel like whatever little micro thing happened, like I just walked by you and you didn't even check me out.
Speaker 1:And are you thinking about that shifting feeling of body image too?
Speaker 2:So many of the comments or questions we received had to do with like we're very different.
Speaker 1:Our bodies have changed. Our bodies have changed and my relationship to my body has changed.
Speaker 2:I feel insecure. I don't really want to be naked.
Speaker 1:I get, I get touched all the time Like that feels like a slightly separate one to me but but but also a lot of people were very vulnerable to say, like also, my partner's body has changed and like we, so like I think, um, how do we get vulnerable when we don't want to?
Speaker 2:you know, like I don't want to have to say that out loud, is there about one of the most intimate parts of who we are, which is her body.
Speaker 3:I think that the not wanting to is so normal. So just normalizing that right. It's like vulnerability can feel so terrifying, especially depending on like your personality style, your attachment style and all of that. And then you're making it about something so material and like representative of you. So I just want to normalize, like those fears are so legit and also like we can choose courage. Right. So we can choose courage and say I've had two C-sections, just finished breastfeeding, where are my boobs? What is this body? Whose body is this Right, right, and have it. And I love having conversations in the most ridiculous way when my husband and I can be playful, yeah, and I'm like who's body is this right?
Speaker 1:now.
Speaker 3:I'm just getting out of the shower, like what is this? And he's like I love it. Over here I'm just going to tell you that I love all of this, but in my mind I'm like I just have to say out loud that I'm learning to love it again because right now it's trash. I don't like any of it. And then, you know, we kind of laugh with each other and go back and forth with that, but it kind of diminishes, like the not diminishes, it reduces the anxiety provoking nature of talking about my body in a way that I really mourn and I think a lot of people in.
Speaker 3:Especially when you're parenting, you're like you're eating shifts, your time shifts, your ability to like focus on your health in the same way shifts, and you're negotiating all of that. And so when your body's inevitably shift, based on age and based on how you can spend your time, like your resources and stuff, your stress levels, all of that, it's like how do you affirm that your body is beautiful as is, changes in all, even when you don't believe it? Because it's not as important for you to believe the things you say if they're affirming and I have to just name that I tell myself I love my body, as is changes in all, as often as I don't like it, and even when I do like it, it feels a little bit better because my self-talk is so important to me that I have to correct it when it starts acting like I'm not worthy of good self-talk. And I think the same goes in relationships. So, like, how do you talk to your partner about their body when you do notice a change?
Speaker 3:Find the things that change that you love even more and talk about those things right. So it's like oh, I love the way your eye twinkles when you see our kid. Like you didn't have to have that, you didn't used to have that twinkle in your eye before them. Or, my goodness, like those hips look amazing on. I love that about your legs are fuller. I like like you, like you know, like all of the things that you notice that are actual changes in each other. Like I love my husband is thicker. That's so sexy. Like I, like a grown man. So I'm like it looks good to me. He's like man, cause I need to get in the gym.
Speaker 2:I'm like don't you do it you know, I think for me, sorry I I think what I?
Speaker 2:I said sorry because I was going to continue to talk, sorry I'm going to keep talking over you, steven um, but I I like that because, even as I said earlier about like it's so hard for me to name that vulnerability place of body and myself, it's a fear and I think that everything you've said so like what, like I've got like my own, like new recipe from this is like choose courage, name the fear. And I think for me, and I think a lot of times the body changes and this has been definitely something we've seen with clients. I would say, but certainly in myself, I love my body, say, but certainly in myself, I love my body. I've, I've gotten to be pregnant five times. We have three living kids. I am so grateful for all my body has done. It is also that like who, who is this? Like whoa, but I, I love it.
Speaker 3:And when I stop loving it.
Speaker 2:It's when I stop talking about it. That's right, and my and I get in my head and I in my head and I think that a lot of it and I think that that is partner driven too. So a lot of times I think what we see in our partners is like are you taking care of yourself? Because you know Steven has a history of a heart I mean your dad passed away from a heart attack and so, like I like see his body and what I see is like, I'm afraid, please take care of yourself, please.
Speaker 2:You know, like, and I want that, and I think a lot of times, if we say these things out loud, what we're really talking about is a relational dynamic not this image because I love Steven, Like I love your body. I love your soul, I love your spirit. But I think a lot of times the way we talk about our bodies, our partner's bodies, has more to do with a fear that's living in our head.
Speaker 2:And I think to your point, Candice, like when we're talking about these things, especially if we can do it in a playful way, it takes all the fear out and we're actually talking about what we need to talk about. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:It does Makes me think to what you were saying, candice. I think one of the things that is really important, particularly for, like, a non-birthing partner so my body not being impacted by childbirth or being pregnant is to give some effort like this idea of like knowing your partner's body and like recognizing the changes. You know, I like that twinkle. You know you've got your thighs are more full. You know your hips are a little more. All of that is wonderful, but I think part of it I kind of see one of my responsibilities is for me to understand what happens, what happens to Aaron's physical body when she got pregnant, when she had kids, when there was a pregnancy loss, when she was breastfeeding, like all of these things. And I wouldn't say I did this very like I'm not saying I did this well, but I think it's something I learned is I, I need to know your, I need to know your body, and that is something that is very important to our sexual intimacy to our closeness.
Speaker 1:Because then I, I recognize, like when you tell me like, oh, that doesn't feel good or that hurts, or you know what, don't touch my boobs Ever again. Like I, I don't, I don't have died.
Speaker 1:I don't take that as some kind of personal offense. Oh, you don't. I'm like. Oh, of course, that makes all the sense in the world. The way I can interact with you and love you is by being aware of your body. I think that that's just in what you were saying learning your partner's body and noting how the body has changed and what you like. That feels like a big part of it to me. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think that there's physical intimacy and sexual intimacy and what you're describing as a part of physical intimacy, where you're attuning to and getting to know and showcasing and getting to be known. You know your physical body without the sexual intimacy which is its own category of intimacy, and so you know the way you pay attention to each other, like the way a partner might pay attention to the grays that come in on a beer, you know.
Speaker 3:Or a shoulder line, you know, like different things like that like that matters when you're dealing with some body insecurities, whether they're static part of your personality you've already always dealt with that or whether they're situational.
Speaker 2:How important do you think it is to share those insecurities, like for our partner to know our physical insecurities?
Speaker 3:I don't know how important it is for them to know all of them as much as it is for you to feel like you can be heard, you know. So it's not like you want it to be shut down, like with toxic positivity. It's like, oh, my goodness, my body isn't feeling right today. You're amazing always and everything you know like I know that feels fun, but it's like, yeah, and I feel that you know, I feel I feel where you're coming from, even though I love it, like it sucks when you don. I feel I feel where you're coming from, even though I love it, like it sucks when you don't feel like you like this thing about yourself, you know. So I think feeling, feeling heard about it, even if it's one of 10 insecurities you have feels fine, yeah, I can I.
Speaker 2:That resonates with me so much every time. I definitely don't need steven to be like, but I like it all the time, but I need him to be like.
Speaker 2:I cannot imagine how surreal it must be having your body have gone through yeah, change so much, yeah so often so and over a very short amount of time yes really um, just like and and there's playing a lot of catch-up, um, but I think so I want to make sure we hit on a couple more like really important themes, one of them being this emotional connection. So many of the comments and questions we got were about like I don't really feel all that much emotional connection or presence or support, but also like I know my partner misses sex. They'd like more sex, but like I don't really feel like that when I'm missing this massive thing, like what don't feel like uh being sexual because the emotional connection feels lacking or um you know like we're just off right now and we're on different pages.
Speaker 3:Um or roommates, Correct, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a that's a big word that a lot of people relate to. Yeah, Like how, what would you say to that couple? Like we are just roommates, but yeah.
Speaker 3:I really believe in okay. So there's a chapter called good sex is intimate and it kind of brings through all of these different types of intimacies. So I referenced Dr Shamira Howard's book use your mouth and she talks about like seven types of intimacy. Emotional is just one of them and, like I just talked about, physical intimacy, sexual intimacy those are recreational, social, but there are a few of them. But the emotional intimacy for some people is so core to their ability to feel sexual desire and even arousal that romance is a gateway.
Speaker 3:Romance is your practice, of their preferred intimacy type. So you have emotional intimacy and the way you connect. Related to that is around finding ways to be known and to know each other emotionally. So it might be like what emoji represents how you're feeling today, or you text each other that this is me, this is my face.
Speaker 3:Even in the little avatar things it's like this is me, this is how I'm feeling today, and you just do those quick check-ins with each other so that you have a reference for when you come back together or even if you're in bed together, like this song is me today and this song is me. And so it's 10 minutes and now you have more emotional intimacy, small bites right, and then it might be intellectual intimacy, where it's like you like to be known, like your thoughts, your ideas, your, you know what you're creating, and so you might share a book together or brainstorm stuff together, help each other think of cool things, fantasize about, like what you, you know what you want to come up with, whatever you want to come up with, and there are all of these ways that you can use romance, attending to the partner's preferred intimacy, to really build that connection and desire for sex. And you might find that even when you do that, it takes time to kind of fill up again, so it's not like a one-to-one like. I listened to your song.
Speaker 1:Let's have sex, come on, all right, yes.
Speaker 2:I think that that's and this speaks to the beginning when you were talking about. It's a practice. What we're talking about is a practice. I think that that's profoundly beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So one last thing which I think you're speaking to but so many of us have like. So even in the beginning you talked about and I'm also very aware that I'm starting with, I mean, I'm ending with the beginning which is people you said people think that they're going to learn about sex through porn, or so many people talked about, like we weren't allowed to talk about sex or I grew up in church culture where it sucks is bad um or like.
Speaker 2:So how do we like? How? So how would someone learn about sex like I? Because I think a lot of couples out there uh feel like what do we know how? So like wait, so we're. So, dr candace, where do so it's not so it's not there. So where, like, how do we learn about sex with our partner? With ourselves, even like, what does this look like? Yeah, it.
Speaker 3:For me it looks like sharing resources with each other, like social media has some really good sex educators on it. Um, and it it depends on, like, whatever is going on in your world. So there are some that focus on, like jones price focuses on sex at any age for people who are 55, 56, plus and I love Emily McGalsky's work, of course so talking about come as you are and even come together. And there are people like I just referenced, shamira Howard and how you talk about sex. So there's some really amazing sex educators who use their platforms to help you think about your sex life in a different way, and then you can listen to that together. Or, oh, I heard this thing, what do you think about that? So you can use it as like an entry point to talk about sex.
Speaker 3:And then so I like reading, so that's why I wrote a book about reading as my jam. But podcasts so even listening to a podcast like this, or you know, sex and psychology podcast there are so many good ones out there where you can think through these ideas as you're on a commute hey, listen to this one while you're driving to work. I'll listen to it and then we'll talk about it later. And then they have like Vagicated and all of these platforms that help you have the sex ed that you deserved, but you didn't get.
Speaker 2:So, everything I hear you saying, which I just want to say over and over, and, over and over and over to every single person listening is this is something we learn about.
Speaker 3:This isn't something we're just supposed to be good at.
Speaker 2:Because I can have sex does not mean that I know what I want or like. These are all things that are worth and deserving. I love that of exploring and learning about in whatever way you prefer to learn. I think a lot of people think Steve and I, we've been married for 17 years. Surely we've got sex just figured out and mastered. And you're a doctor. You research, sex, like you've just you've got it figured out.
Speaker 1:But I think that this isn't ever.
Speaker 2:like I said earlier too, like I've been 17 at least different partners, Like I've had a whole I mean so many differences. This is something we have to do some work on.
Speaker 1:And hopefully it's fun right like, playfully and together, like, like. This is a way to connect. This is a way to be close as partners is to learn about sex you know, it's a it seems like such a novel idea in some ways. I no like if you want to learn about sex and how to have a good sex life, then do that together, just like you'd want to learn about anything parenting or I don't know, gardening or I don't know why.
Speaker 2:I think the recipes is like a perfect thing for this because no one, you don't just, you're not just a good cook.
Speaker 3:Absolutely not, and I share this metaphor. So, for example, when I was 15 and 20, I was just down three McDonald's cheeseburgers and that was delicious, and that was the menu, and now I like truffle fries.
Speaker 3:And that's not served at McDonald's. My palate is refining every step of the way, and so is my sexual palate. You know, it's like there are things that I used to like that are like this isn't going to do it for me anymore, and there are things that I used to like and I'm like I want that forever. I can still eat fries. I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that. I do too.
Speaker 2:I think another like sort of maybe like closing question is like. I think another like sort of maybe like closing question is like why, why should couples want good sex?
Speaker 3:I think that couples don't have to want good sex. I want to start there Great, but every couple is worthy of good sex if that's what they desire for themselves. So I want to normalize that. There are some couples who are in a season where sex just feels like the lowest of priorities and neither of the people in the couple really feel like they want to explore that aspect of their life, then that's okay. But for people who do want to have the sex life that they're worthy of, who want good sex, I think we should all have access to the ingredients that help us make the sex menu that works for us, and so a part of the way that we learn that is through these conversations with each other is through navigating those difficult, awkward, like clunk. What do you call them, clunky?
Speaker 3:clunky clunky conversations, laughing at each other I mean laughing with each other, not at each other and having fun with it. And even when it's serious like I really appreciate your disclosure of, you know, losing a child I've had a similar experience and I think a lot of people probably in your audience can relate to that and thinking about how you know if you don't want to have sex for a C. You want to want to have sex but you're afraid for another reason or something like that. Then you know how do you have compassion and care for each other? How do you get creative about all the different types of sex? So it's not just penetration, but it's all of the things that can be on your menu, and I think that every couple who wants that should have access to that, and so a part of the reason why I wrote Good Sex is because I's going to take some time and it helps normalize for people that you know, like we're mental health professionals.
Speaker 3:This, the the type of change you're seeking, is totally possible and not overnight right?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, um, dr candace, nicole harans, we love having you on this show. I mean, I think we could go on and on. There's so many questions. We really appreciate it. Can you please tell people where they can find your book, where they can find you in the world, because it's such a great resource?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Everyone who's listening. Please go find her, but tell us where we can find you.
Speaker 3:Yes, Okay, so you can find Good Sex Stories, Science and Strategies for Sexual Liberation on Barnes and Noble website, amazon. Those are the two places that people who count metrics care about most in the first few weeks. So those are places to find it, but I love a good local bookstore, so Paris bookstore here in Decatur. They're a great place to buy online on their bookstore as well. And then you can find me. I want to be found on places like IG and threads and Facebook at Dr Candice Nicole or on my website at drcandicenicolecom.
Speaker 2:We cannot thank you enough. We I hope we can have you back sometime because there are still about 900 questions to get to, but, thank you, we really appreciate this. This is it's important. It really does change people's lives, the work you're doing, and I thank you, thank you so much I appreciate y'all for having me.
Speaker 3:This has been great.
Speaker 1:Today's show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents and remember working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.