Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
Parenting on Purpose: Moving Beyond Parenting Differences
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What happens when two loving parents disagree about how to respond to their child's behavior? This deeply personal episode dives into one of the most challenging conflicts couples face—differing parenting approaches.
Through the story of Justin and Lori, we examine how bedtime struggles with their six-year-old son leads to couple conflict. Justin believes in firm boundaries and worries about being manipulated, while Lori focuses on understanding what's driving their son's behavior. This scenario leaves both parents feeling misunderstood and judged by their partner.
Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP unpack the neuroscience of effective parenting—acknowledging a child's experience, attuning to their emotional state, and reflecting/mirroring what we observe—while honestly addressing why this approach can be difficult to implement consistently in real life. Most importantly, they explore how our own childhood experiences create emotional triggers that make these conversations particularly charged. Stephen shares how his resistance stems from not wanting to parent like his father, while Erin reflects on how being raised by a busy single mother shaped her approach to structure and boundaries.
The path forward isn't about determining who's right, but understanding what drives our reactions and learning to "parent on purpose" instead of from automatic patterns. By approaching these differences with kindness and curiosity, couples can move from rigid opposition to thoughtful collaboration.
Want more resources to help transform your essential relationship conflicts into deeper connection? Our book "Too Tired to Fight" gives you practical tools to navigate the 13 conflicts every couple faces, including parenting differences. Available wherever books are sold: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/059371427X
Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents a show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Here are our parents our dad, dr Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, erin Mitchell.
Speaker 2:Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Stephen Mitchell.
Speaker 3:I'm Erin Mitchell.
Speaker 2:And we are excited to be here with you today. Welcome to the show On today's episode. I have to be honest, so I was writing up this script and whatnot, and I feel a little nervous about the topic because I think that this is a hot topic that comes up between parenting partners related to how they discuss parenting differences. Sure.
Speaker 2:And so we're going to jump into it and just want you to know I'm jumping in with a little bit of trepidation because I have a feeling that not everyone's going to love what I have to say and what you have to say. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see.
Speaker 3:Sure, but we look forward to your feedback and curious how it does land.
Speaker 2:This case example is a very, very, very common conversation that we have with couples. Yes, on the regular.
Speaker 3:I also think it's worth noting there is a chapter in our book about this also. That I think is also very helpful and comes not from like a drastically different perspective.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it can give. So there's so much you can do in a podcast, right, Right, and I think that the book chapter might even give a little more whole-bodied experience kind of description.
Speaker 3:Correct. I think it's also a good resource for this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're going to take a little walk down relationship lane with Justin and Lori. And you know, justin and Lori feel like they are on the same page when it comes to most things in life work, finances, their friend group where they live, you know all that kind of stuff. They are aligned except when it comes to parenting. It's not that Justin and Lori differ on the fundamentals of what kind of person they hope their kids become, but they are miles apart in terms of how they engage with their kids around emotions, expectations, behavior, discipline and any other parent-child interaction you can think of. Does this sound like anybody yet? Yet out there, we'll see. Let's let's walk a little further down relationship lane. So here's a good example of what this looks like for Justin and Lori.
Speaker 2:Their six-year-old, henry, typically has a tough time going to sleep at night, and Henry doesn't like the dark and it's not infrequent for him to get in bed but then call for Justin or Lori to come and give him a hug, or he might get out of bed and come into Justin and Lori's room for quote unquote one last hug and kiss or water, or for one more story. You know, you've heard, you've heard the stories before, and this process can be pretty frustrating for both Justin and Lori. Justin thinks that Henry should be given a boundary. Once you're in bed for the night, you don't get out or call mom and dad into the room. Lori feels that they should be patient with Henry and try and understand what is happening for him during nighttime and why he seems to be having a hard time separating from them. The conversation might go something like this Justin Lori, he's just playing us. He knows that he can manipulate us into staying up longer and we just need to set a boundary with him. Lori, justin, henry is six. He's not trying to manipulate us, he's scared or something else. Justin, lori, he knows what he's doing. When I was six, if my dad told me to stay in bed, I stayed in bed. This is no different, lori Justin, your dad yelled at you all the time. You say over and over that he was a harsh guy who you were scared to upset. Are you saying you want Henry to feel the same way, justin? No, but Henry has to learn that sometimes you have to do stuff you don't like in life. Sometimes there are people in charge who aren't going to be nice and coddle you when you need a good night hug.
Speaker 2:This conversation never ends well for Justin and Lori. Typically it ends with some kind of statement that Lori is soft and coddling and Justin is a little more old school in his parenting. Many couples get to this point in the conversation and they end up leaving the conversation thinking two different things. So Lori leaves thinking man, justin needs to do some work to figure out why he gets so upset with Henry when he doesn't quote unquote follow the rules. He's too rigid and harsh with Henry. Why can't he regulate his own strong reactions long enough to focus on Henry and what Henry needs? Justin leaves thinking we just parent so different. Lori is too soft and coddling with Henry. She just doesn't realize that kids have to learn how to deal with disappointment and following rules. I know I sure had to learn those things and I turned out okay. I'm in no way saying that I need to be gruff like my dad was, but she's just too sensitive.
Speaker 3:So I was taking some notes while you were talking. One I laughed to myself about the water Our kids we have one, especially that I don't think drinks water at all except at bedtime.
Speaker 3:Like, oh, that's my cue to remember. I have thirst cues, so that one got me good. But then also, like the two things people leave thinking. So I think that there's two thoughts to this. Like, I think that there are thoughts, but I think there are also feelings and I know that those can sometimes be interrelated. But I think another thought that the Loris have is great, have is great. So you have done no reading on child development, prefrontal cortex, like you have no idea what our six year old is capable of. But sure you're gonna say that you know what their motives and what they're, what they're capable of. So that thought of you, don't? You don't get to have a say if you don't understand.
Speaker 2:Right If you don't do some of the work to understand.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think that thought and the thought that you also said about. They also don't figure out why it's so activating for them. You know Lori's, like Justin, better figure this out for themselves. I think both of those thoughts leave the Lori's feeling I'm alone in this. I'm the one who's done this research. The reason I think that we're supposed to pay attention to Henry's cues and be with Henry when he's trying to express something is based on research is based on an experience is based on research, is based on an experience is based on, um, something solid.
Speaker 3:And so I think it can be really like oh, I'm all alone, I, I'm, I'm all alone, I'm, I'm always going to be alone, like whatever that. And then our own histories, our stories, uh, maybe change the impact of those feelings. So it's up to me whatever sort of lesson you've learned in your life? And then I think the Justins think I want what's best for our kid. I have their best in mind. I'm trying to help make them resilient adults. I'm like my motive is pure.
Speaker 2:And you are doing.
Speaker 3:them harm the like the Justin's think the Lori's are doing. You're setting them up for failure in life, in life, yes, so like yes, they're not maybe as sad tonight, but but that will lead to a lifetime of challenge for them and you are doing damage which I think leaves the Justins feeling uh pretty discouraged and like yeah uh, defeated like great.
Speaker 3:So I'm not allowed to do what I think is best for my kid, because you disagree and you're in charge of parenting and I have to just roll over and do what you say because you read a book right or you, yeah, are influenced, or whatever the thought is yeah but so I think that there's a lot of real hurt. My opinion doesn't matter, I don't, I don't get a say.
Speaker 2:You know. So those are some of the things going on here. I think. I think that there is and this is maybe one of those things that when I was thinking about doing this, I was like, well, I'm going to say this I don't know if everyone will agree out there, but maybe this will feel controversial or not but there's a very clear way to parent that is research-based, science-backed, that talks about what kids need. That talks about what kids need. There's so much science out there in the universe it's not really debatable in terms of what leads to healthy, good parenting. You're looking at me like maybe.
Speaker 3:I think I don't disagree with you. In fact, I don't disagree. Good, okay, all right, right, I do agree with you. I think that you always say things so definitively okay but I think I don't. I do agree with you. I think I'm so thankful for brain imaging now and that we can see what happens when different you know like happens in the brain while different emotions are being experienced. And yes, I do think, though, for now, like this is the most we know for now.
Speaker 2:Okay, so what we know now and I'll just try to sum it up in terms of, like, the basic framework for parenting and I like from a neuroscience standpoint, there's some key features that are important. That parents, first of all, acknowledge their child's experience, and oftentimes acknowledging, is just simply saying to your kid whatever is happening for you, whatever you're saying, doing, expressing in terms of an emotional output, is you trying to say there's something important happening in my life? And that the caregiver's responsibility is to acknowledge that the next thing that a caregiver is to do is to attune to their child's experience. So, if a child is expressing a emotion, what that caregiver is to do is to not tell them not to have an emotion, not to dismiss their emotion, but to attune to the emotion. Okay, you're excited and happy. Oh, wow, that's amazing. Like, what are you excited and happy about? Oh, you feel really angry, you feel really upset. Oh, my, oh, my goodness, what is happening? What is making you angry? So you have to acknowledge and attune making you angry. So you have to acknowledge and attune.
Speaker 2:And then there's this process of reflecting and mirroring back to your kid what you see, and that is a nonverbal process and a verbal process. So what this might look like, let's say, for Justin and Lori they're in bed, they've put Henry to bed. Henry comes back in and says, hey, can I have another hug? You know, whatever it might be. And this is like, let's say, like they are at max capacity.
Speaker 2:What would it look like to acknowledge a tune, reflect a mirror? And I think that what that looks like is, first of all, it's very obvious that Henry is not ready to go to bed yet, or that there's something going on that he wants one more hug, or whatever it might be. So I think simply acknowledging is oh hey, bud, looks like you're not ready to go to bed yet, ok. And it looks like you want another hug, okay. And then you, the mirroring and reflecting part is like hey, are you feeling? Are you feeling scared? Are you feeling, um, sad? Are you feeling anxious about being in the dark, like where you're trying to understand what it is that is bringing Henry back into your room, because, again, you're trying to acknowledge something important is happening here. Sure, and and by kind of going through these, this process of acknowledging, trying to attune to what if there's something happening for him, and then trying to mirror and reflect, it is by sort of asking those questions.
Speaker 3:I think my favorite way of saying this to myself, and something I learned, was describe, describe, describe. So like, oh, but bedtime's tough. It's hard to say goodnight. It's hard when mom and dad go to their room. It's hard to be separate. This is a tough time of night. This is like we are separating for the night. Just describe. And here's the thing. People feel like they're going to put language into their kids' mouths. Try it. Your kid will tell you that you're wrong.
Speaker 2:Whether you're right or wrong.
Speaker 3:Yes, and you know, like they might be nodding along or like, no, it's not separating. I heard a weird noise. Oh, you heard a weird noise and you came to come see us. Oh, I'm so glad you knew you could come get us. When you hear a weird noise, it's also hard.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Because, you know, at night we notice there's a lot of strange noises. There's, you know, like we live in a place where we hear noises when it's quiet or whatever the thing is is. I think you're just trying to give them language, because I do think asking questions can be helpful. Maybe it depends on your kid and their age, but sometimes it just helps to give them the language and you're just I mean honestly putting some stuff out there and they're going to latch on to what is true.
Speaker 2:Right, right and so kind of. That's an attempt to try and reduce all of the science to. You're trying to acknowledge your child's experience, you're trying to attune to the emotional content of that experience and then you're trying to reflect and mirror that experience and then you're trying to reflect and mirror that experience back to your kids so that they feel understood, seen, which creates a feeling of safety, and that is parenting.
Speaker 3:What happens, though, so typically for the Laurie's and the Justin's right? They're in their bed. They've put Henry to sleep. He might have gone all the way to sleep. Maybe Justin laid with him until he was asleep.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 3:And then came in, and then they hear little footsteps.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And in that moment, justin and Lori are having a break in their relationship, and they just know it. So Lori's expecting Justin to lose his temper or to be short tempered or frustrated or whatever, and Lori's expecting to have to do these steps with Justin. I know it's hard, I know we were expecting it, and these are the moments when the Lori's are like I have an extra kid.
Speaker 3:So I have a child and I have a non-child child and Justin's are thinking why am I not allowed to be frustrated? Why are we not allowed to have some boundaries? Why are we not allowed to protect our time? Why?
Speaker 2:Right, right, and, and, and I think that, like I think everyone's feelings in this scenario are are understandable, um and but I think that then where, where the the conflict begins? I think that there's maybe potentially three things that are going on. When the conflict starts between Lori and Justin in this moment, I think one potential thing is you and your partner do not agree on parenting period, so there's one partner who's like this way of parenting that Steven just described I don't buy it, I don't believe in it and the other partner is like well, I do. That could be one thing, just a philosophical difference.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of times people experience the type of parenting you said is like sure, but that can become permissive and I think there's a massive difference from giving our kids, helping them grow in their own security, and being permissive. In fact being permissive does not help with that, but I think sometimes these parents polarize each other and the lorries in these situations do start sort of teetering into permissive parenting as a well both of them. They flex each other right, but you get super authoritarian.
Speaker 3:I get super permissive, Justin gets super boundaries rigid rules obey, Lori's get hey, it's okay. And it starts to look like that doesn't look like healthy, solid parenting. It looks like this kid's walking all over us.
Speaker 2:Right, right and again. So you could just disagree with this style of parenting. Or your partner agrees in theory with this way of parenting but struggles to practice it. It's just kind of a learning curve thing. Or you and your partner agree with this way of parenting, but you and your partner disagree about how to practice this way of interacting with your kid, and so I think that and it could be a combination of all three of these emerging, and so I am curious. So if you are, you know, thinking about you and your partner, where do you and your partner get stuck in this conversation? Is it about like, well, I just don't believe in that, or I believe in that, but man, that's just really hard to do? Or like I believe in it and I think we're doing it. That's just not the way I would, that's just not the way I would apply these principles.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 2:So where do you fall?
Speaker 3:Do you know where we fall?
Speaker 2:You know that's a great question. I was just thinking about that. Um, I think that probably I fall. I don't know, I maybe fall at number two. Me too, I just struggle to practice it.
Speaker 3:Me too, I think. I think that sometimes I struggle and I my boundaries become diffuse, where I struggle to keep whatever boundary, because it's harder and it get, it's not that big of a deal and I get really rigid and I get just like. So we are Lori and Justin. Yeah, on some level should we start the podcast over and just name it right. Yeah, um yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think that I struggle with number two, definitely, and and then I think that one of the things is is now partners like Justin and Lori are in this place. Let's say that they're like they're Steven and Aaron and they're like at that place of they. They just struggle with practicing it, but then when you want to like talk to one another about this, just as Justin and Lori were doing, there's so much resistance from both partners to to interacting around it, and I think part of what can inform the negative like dynamic and talking about this is give you another list of three. I think there one of them could be just a parental anxiety about getting it right, about being the perfect parent, about making sure that you have kids who are developmentally, neurologically, emotionally, socially strong, just not wanting to get it wrong. So there's just a lot of anxiety and I think oftentimes that gets experienced by one. One partner feels policed by the other. They feel micromanaged or they feel like you got to do it. We got to do it right. We got to get it right. Every interaction has to be perfect. No, you can't use that word when you talk to our kid. No, you can't say it that way. You got it.
Speaker 2:So I think that that's one of the reasons. I think another way that resistance comes up or difficulty in this conversation is just a shame about doing something wrong or like needing help or feeling like I don't know what to do as a parent, and that can make you feel bad about yourself. I think that you know if I probably my biggest struggle is with that idea of the shame from the standpoint of I'm not a perfect parent. I might do something that doesn't fall in line with that neurologically healthy, sound way of parenting that I just described, and if Aaron were to say something about it, I might have a strong reaction, more because I'm embarrassed than I disagree with her. And I think another reason there can be resistance is because it is hard work to parent like this and life is already hard enough and busy and it just feels like a bunch of extra and sometimes we're tired and we don't feel like we have the time for all this extra nuance.
Speaker 3:That would be me. I think I trend more towards that being my. This is not that big of a deal. I would rather solve this problem in five minutes than the hard way. The other thing I think which is worth adding and I think it's true for all of these things is, I mean even us, so largely I would say we're quote unquote, getting it right in our own eyes.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 3:But when we're extra tired or we're extra stressed, or you know it's been a busy day already or everything's pushed back because we are entering the season where we are in soccer every single minute of our day, that we are not working and dinner doesn't even start until late, and then everything's late, and then by the time that like bedtime's happening, I'm very done.
Speaker 3:And I just want everyone to go to sleep. I want to go to sleep and them not going to sleep means I'm not going to sleep and I'm tired. And so I think, that makes it harder. So like, mostly I think we are on the same page. I think most parents that we talk to anyway agree, like we actually agree a large amount of the time About a lot of things. Yes, and we actually agree a large amount of the time.
Speaker 2:About a lot of things.
Speaker 3:Yes, and or this even goes well most of the time, but there's moments when it just doesn't, and I think that's very different from feeling like this is an unending unsolvable. Every time this opportunity presents itself, we are going to disagree, kind of conversation. One is like that did not go, like we meant Yep, and I know why Yep Me too.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you move on Well, and I think, if you notice, like these reasons, that where there's resistance or difficulty from being able to hear from one another, they don't really have anything to do with your partner necessarily, Right? So, Aaron, doesn't really have anything to do with the shame that I might feel about maybe making a misstep in my parenting or we don't. I might well, well, maybe, but but but I'm just saying the fact that I feel a shame doesn't doesn't like that's about my own insecurity or my own struggle in terms of not wanting to be a bad parent, and the same thing with the anxiety about wanting to get it right. Oftentimes that is within each individual parent, Like the reason that you feel anxious about getting it right and not messing up. That is related to your own experience, your own story. That's not really your partner's story.
Speaker 3:Although very likely they have touched those places explicitly.
Speaker 2:Exactly, but I think all I'm trying to say is, like part of this is you have to be aware of, in this conflict with your partner, what is driving it for you Right, right outside of your partner, or being able to have a fluid conversation about this with one another. What is that about?
Speaker 3:Sure, that's good.
Speaker 2:So, and I will just say personally, I think some of my shame too is when I make a parenting misstep. The reason I feel shame predominantly is because I end up feeling like my dad. I know that I've responded in a way that my dad responded and that I don't want to do that. I feel ashamed for mirroring how my dad parented with my kids, because it was not a good way to parent and I think that that is that's me. That's a story base. So if Aaron's like hey, you know what? Like you're being a little harsh with the kids, You're being a little rigid, my energy around that is most likely. Don't say those things, because that makes me feel like my dad, not because I'm like no, I really believe that I need to toughen these kids up for a tough world out there and and and I, you know, like right, that's good.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, think about that, you know, chew on that a little bit, and then I then I think kind of, you're thinking about something, you're chewing on it, yeah, I like.
Speaker 3:I think that that's important, because I do think that that's the place to understand where your story is impacting what we need to understand about ourselves in this conversation what we need to understand about our partner, because that is very often where the block to understanding what is fueling this?
Speaker 3:conversation comes from. Because when I know that that is Steven's motivation in those moments, or that I mean the motivation of defensiveness, or is Steven's motivation in those moments, or that I mean the motivation of defensiveness, or the motivation of don't say that, or the motivation of no, I'm not. I have a lot of compassion for that and as you were talking, I was thinking like what about? My story would make me feel like it's hard work, life's hard enough and I'm like, oh, I was raised by a single mom, who was doing everything all the time, and she let so much slide.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:I resented that when I was little. Like, why don't we have to do the things that some of my friends have to do? Why don't we have to wake up and make our beds, why don't we have to whatever any of these things? And that just was not a priority for her. Something had to go and I'm like, oh, I have some of these same, like you know, is this really that big of a deal? And honestly, sometimes the answer is no, yeah.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's not yeah.
Speaker 3:But sometimes the answer is I really wanted that kind of structure, I crave that kind of structure and I struggle to keep that kind of structure. And I think I feel sad about that yeah oh, I didn't learn that. I don't know that without um flexing that muscle yeah, yeah, I hear that.
Speaker 2:Oh sorry, buddy yeah, like that, like that, yeah, like that, check out yeah, I know that about you, but I don't maybe I just didn't know it in that way like that's really helpful for me. That's a profound moment right here. I'm really glad to know that.
Speaker 3:I think that this is why that matters. What you did, what you modeled. There is how this conversation is like oh, there's just tenderness. Where instead it feels like we're against each other rather than like oh, I see that right, oh, I'm beside you actually yeah I'm with you, I see that for you, and then we get choice back. We can, we come back to you. Don't have to react that way. I don't have to react that way.
Speaker 2:I get why sometimes we might though and I can have compassion for you rather than blaming you or feeling shame and shutting myself off from that or so okay, sorry um well, I think that's great and um to kind of like, so I'm gonna also then throw out some just like what do you do?
Speaker 3:shocker.
Speaker 2:There's three more things some real kind of like practical okay, what? What do you do? And again, remember, this is a very short conversation, so you know these you mean podcast?
Speaker 2:yeah, podcast. I mean this isn perfect, but here's just some ideas about what you can do in this context. I think first thing you can do as parenting partners is a little bit of what you alluded to at the beginning, Aaron is you need to educate yourself about parenting both of you in an equitable way. You need to not use the phrase I parent on instinct, Because oftentimes this just means you're flying by the seat of your pants or basing your parenting on past experience, which could be positive or negative, and there are a lot of really useful resources that you and your partner both can engage in so that you can learn about parenting and learn about what is effective parenting and what that should look like. And I think that that's for those who are out there who, just like philosophically, I don't agree Like you need to educate yourself, Um what I would simply add to that is the educate yourself.
Speaker 3:Yes, about brains and child development. Yes, so like do that work, which I think is what you're saying, that is what I'm saying the second part to that is educate yourself about yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I do think when we say like oh, I liked my parenting and so so I'll say that because that, because this is the second one.
Speaker 2:Okay, the second one is be honest about your resistance in this conversation, which is part of educate yourself. Like, are you anxious? Is there shame there, Like what is going on for you in this conversation? And so, yes, like, be honest with yourself, educate yourself about yourself, explore, like what you know. Aaron, sitting there saying like oh, I had a single mom and so like this really impacted how I see this. I'm like I had a really angry, loud, mean dad. That impacts like how I view and see this and because we're not doing those things, we're doing better.
Speaker 3:You know that's. It's easy to say, you know, like the Justin's, like well, I'm, I'm, I forget how exactly he said it, but like you, know I'm not even half as harsh as he is Like. Of course Henry doesn't hate me. I'm not mean to asking him to do something, but but I think that this is again why it's important to know and to know what we did like, what we didn't like, why. Why was that helpful? What was the outcome of that?
Speaker 2:You know all of those understanding our stories- and then I think part of it is is like you like, how do you talk? How do how do Justin and Lori talk about this after they've listened to the podcast, after we've spent some time chatting with them, after they've read the chapter in the book? What might some of these conversations look like?
Speaker 3:There are some really good reflection questions for this in the book. I liked.
Speaker 2:Yes, but in that chapter.
Speaker 3:I'm glad you liked it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I liked them too. So we're going to kind of try to cast what that script might look like. I, you liked it. Yeah, I liked him too, but so we're going to kind of try to cast like what that script might look like I'll be Lori. Yeah, you'll be Lori, I'll be Justin.
Speaker 3:Justin, can we talk about our earlier fight?
Speaker 2:Justin. Honestly, lori, I don't really want to. We don't really have a different conversation. I think we just need to accept that we parent differently and let each other interact with Henry the way we think is best.
Speaker 3:Lori says I agree we don't have a different conversation, but I don't want to repeat the same conversation either. What I do want is an agreed upon approach and a way of interacting with Henry.
Speaker 2:Justin, well, I don't think that's going to happen.
Speaker 3:Lori, what I want is to resolve this. I send you videos, I send you podcasts, I send you books that I'd like for you to look at or read or listen to, so we can talk about parenting and get on the same page.
Speaker 2:Justin, you don't send me those things so we can talk about parenting. You send me those things because you want me to parent the way you do. You're not looking for a conversation, you're looking for control.
Speaker 3:Lori. Honestly, that's frustrating to hear and in some ways I see how it's accurate. I'm looking for a conversation when I send you those things. But I also know I get anxious about doing parenting right or it comes off as controlling. I don't want to control how you do things. I think you're a great dad and I know you love the kids. I know the kids love you. I just want more dialogue between us about how we're parenting and why we're parenting the way we are.
Speaker 2:Justin. I just don't know why we have to stress about all of this so much. We love our kids. We're doing our best. We won't be perfect.
Speaker 3:Lori, I know, but parenting is one of the most important things we get to do and I feel like we have not made a plan about how we want to do it. We have a plan for work, we have a plan for our careers, we make a plan for our finances, but we don't have a plan for how to interact with our kids and help them grow and develop.
Speaker 2:Justin, I guess I just don't see parenting as something you have to plan for.
Speaker 3:But I also see the point, Lori. What I would love is for you to give me one parenting book or article that you think describes how you view parenting and how you would approach parenting. I'd read it. We can talk about that. I just want to be able to have open dialogue with you about what and why we're doing what you're doing with the kids. Being their parents is important, and I know it's important to you too. I would like to talk about it and think about it and work on it together.
Speaker 2:Justin. Okay, that's fair. You send me stuff all the time, so now I get to send you something. I'll do it. Scene Scene it's back from my acting career.
Speaker 3:I got it.
Speaker 2:Back when I was an actor an aspiring actor. I was never an aspiring actor, just in case anyone wanted to know. But I think, if you notice, in that nothing's really resolved for Justin and Lori from the standpoint of like, hey, we know how we are parenting exactly, but at least there's an open conversation and I think that's so oftentimes in this conversation it is closed. Parenting partners expect their partner to react the same way, to do the same thing that they always do when this kind of stuff comes up. And I think what Lori is asking there is like we need a plan. We never had a plan and we need to like understand why we do what we're doing so that we can do like we can parent on purpose.
Speaker 3:Ooh, you know how you always do that to me when you're like. Ooh, say that again.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Parenting on purpose. I don't know if that's a book, but if it isn't if it is, we should all read it.
Speaker 2:It's our title, you can't have it. Parenting on purpose. Um, and because I think that that's oftentimes what will help this conversation feel resolved If both partners feel like we're doing what we're doing because we've talked about it and we're meaning to do it, and you don't have to agree on everything, but at least you agree on how you're discussing it and how you're interacting around these things.
Speaker 3:Again my kindness and curiosity. I just am always going to lead with those things. I think when we know these places in ourselves, when we know these stories for our partner, there is kindness even in the differences, when there can be curiosity about like I don't understand that, how did that come to be?
Speaker 3:And when we are able to share. That is where connection is. We do not have to agree. But if it doesn't feel on purpose, if it feels like a reaction or because well, it's what my dad did, like you don't talk to your dad, how is that a helpful like I don't, why would we do the thing where a kid ends up not talking to us? Leading with kindness, curiosity, even towards ourself, I think, is what moves this conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what kind of new conversation do you and your partner need to have when it comes to your parenting? Set some of these things in motion. Educate yourself about parenting. Learn what neuroscience says about interacting with little human beings or or or or big human beings, because when you learn about it for little human beings, you, it definitely helps you as an adult. But then also learn about yourself. Understand what, what buttons get pushed for you, what are your motivations, what are the emotions that come up for you when it comes to talking about parenting with your partner. I think if you do those two things alone, you will have completely different conversations together as parenting partners. Hey, before we wrap up today, we want to remind you that conflict isn't the enemy of a healthy relationship. It's actually the path to deeper connection.
Speaker 3:And that's exactly what we explore in our book. Too Tired to Fight. In the book, we break down the 13 essential conflicts that every couple needs to have to keep their relationship strong. We guide you through each one, showing you how to move from feeling stuck in endless arguments to using those moments as a chance to connect and grow stronger together.
Speaker 2:Whether you're struggling with feeling like the default parent navigating in-laws, or just trying to be understood by your partner, Too Tired to Fight, gives you the tools to turn those pain points into connection points.
Speaker 3:If you want to dive deeper into what we've been discussing on the podcast, the book is a great companion. It's filled with real life examples, practical strategies and step by step guidance on how to have those essential conflicts without feeling like banging your head against the wall with the same fight over and over.
Speaker 2:So, if you're ready to stop fighting and start connecting, you can grab your copy of Too Tired to Fight on our website, Amazon or wherever you get books. Copy of Too Tired to Fight on our website, Amazon or wherever you get books. And remember, every conflict is just an opportunity waiting to be turned into connection.
Speaker 3:Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 2:Today's show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents, and remember working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.