Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
ADHD in Relationships: Navigating the Neurodivergent Disconnect!
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The complexity of ADHD can transform a loving partnership into a battlefield of misunderstanding, shame, and resentment—especially when children enter the picture. After receiving an overwhelming response to a social media post about ADHD in relationships, we knew we needed to address this increasingly common challenge faced by parenting partners.
In this first episode of our two-part series, we explore four specific scenarios where ADHD creates conflict between parenting partners: when the default parent has ADHD, when the non-default parent has ADHD, when both partners have ADHD, and when parenting a child with ADHD. Drawing from professional expertise and personal experience, Stephen Mitchell, PhD and Erin Mitchell, MACP dive into how ADHD affects parenting partner relationships and leads to disconnection and conflict.
Stephen and Erin unpack the neurological reality of ADHD as more than just a willpower issue, examining how dopamine processing affects everything from organization to emotional regulation. Most importantly, we reveal how deeply-rooted shame narratives can drive defensive reactions when partners express frustration, creating cycles of conflict that feel impossible to break.
Whether you suspect ADHD plays a role in your relationship challenges or you're already navigating this reality, this episode offers validation, clarity, and hope. Join us next week when we'll share specific processes for resolving these conflicts and building stronger connections despite—and sometimes because of—your neurodivergent partnership.
Resources mentioned in show:
ADHD 2.0 book link: https://a.co/d/hBLUekw
@alex_partridge_100
Hey everyone, thanks for joining us for the show. These next two weeks we're doing a special series on ADHD and parenting partner relationships. In this episode we'll describe four specific scenarios that parenting partners face that lead to conflict when ADHD is present in their relationship. Then next week, in part two of this series, we will describe a process for parenting partners to follow to help resolve these conflicts. So thanks for joining us and let's get to the show.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents A show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Here are our parents our dad, dr Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, erin Mitchell.
Speaker 1:Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Stephen Mitchell, I'm Erin Mitchell and today's episode is all about ADHD and being in a couple relationship with ADHD, as a member of your relationship.
Speaker 3:Or, I think, just when ADHD is a part of your family system.
Speaker 1:True, true. So all of this came about? Aaron had posted I don't know a week or so ago about ADHD and parenting partner relationships, and then we got so many questions, responses, so much interaction from the community about how ADHD has impacted different community members' lives that we were like, huh, maybe we should do a little podcast about it.
Speaker 3:So- I think it's also worth noting that ADHD has come up in our sessions with clients more and more and more and more. Like 18 billion times and I think that that's part of why we are even posting about it more is because this is obviously a very big topic. I guess People are trying to talk about trying to even learn, about trying to understand more and more. It's definitely become something that is more popular in sort of mainstream discussion.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:But that doesn't necessarily help people know how it like a practical way To interact with it and engage it right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so there was actually one. There was one kind of I was going to say communication. I think it's a DM I think that that's what we call it these days A DM from one of the community members, and they kind of expressed, like you know, they gave us permission to say this yes, yes, they did.
Speaker 1:And I said you know, hey, like both my partner and I have ADHD. And then they went on to say I grieve the years we lost, resentment and poor communication, because neither of us ever felt like we were enough. We were living in burnout and filled with shame.
Speaker 3:I can see this highly genetic and often undiagnosed condition, the rippling effects of it and the consequences of it through our entire family trees and this person was specifically saying that when they came to this realization, when they realized both of them that some of these things that had long histories of resentment and shame cycles we could now label ADHD, and how freeing that was for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it was so interesting because I think, like in full disclosure, this ADHD is a part of our couple relationship and dynamic and something that we kind of came to understand later in our relationship, later as adults, and I think that we had a very similar experience in terms of this community member, in terms of, like, some of the things that we got so frustrated with one another about, if we could, if we could think about them and understand them in terms of ADHD, it really changed the dynamic um between us.
Speaker 3:Yes, and I think we're going to get more into this, but I think just like some more details to that story. So when I was growing up, my mom was diagnosed herself with ADHD. I think I was late high school. I know I was in high school, um and that seemed helpful for her. It seemed a little helpful for me. It didn't really. I don't. I didn't know much of an impact, but I think, moving forward in our relationship, some of the things that were very frustrating to you about my mom, were some of these things but we didn't call them ADHD.
Speaker 3:You didn't know that it wasn't like, oh, your mom's ADHD. It was like gosh your mom. Whatever, fill in the blank.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, it's all those things like is. Is that that happened?
Speaker 1:I think, like ADHD is often seen as, like you know, impulsive, distracted, not able to follow through, kind of all over the place, like not organized, like those really negative ways of describing messy messy, yeah, and you know, like all of that negative view that comes with someone who has ADHD and, at the time, me feeling that you know, like all of that negative view that comes with someone who has ADHD and, at the time, me feeling that you know I was not like that and, above all of that, yeah, it became very frustrating.
Speaker 3:And then some of those things. I mean my mom's in mind, and I think that this is something we're going to talk about too, because ADHD has such different ways of presenting in every single person. It seems like there are as many different types as there are people. And that is certainly true in families as well.
Speaker 3:So I have just recently finally gotten my diagnosis, although I have probably known, since the day my mom got hers as well In fact I did we talked about it, but it was just like oh, it's not really impacting me in this massive way, I don't need medication.
Speaker 1:I don't need these things.
Speaker 3:So I didn't ever really pursue any formal diagnosis or any medication or therapy specifically about it. And then we had kids and then it felt like not only were we recognizing some of these things in some of our kids, but also the impact on me and my ability to manage my own ADHD. I was struggling.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and then my reactions to feeling like those same things, like kind of the same way I felt about your mom, in those ways like feeling that way about the kids are so disorganized. You're not, you know, you can't follow through, you can't, you know those kinds of things messy, all of that. Seeing it in our kids really did highlight it as you're saying in us.
Speaker 1:But then I think also it made me begin to question some things about myself and even whether or not I struggled with some ADHD and I have not received any kind of formal diagnosis or anything like that. But I do think that there is a question and we'll get into this in terms of if I have a little bit of some autism kind of consider all these things and look at our relationship and our family in light of these things. I think it really helped. It really helped our family a ton.
Speaker 3:Right, similar to what this person said in their message. You look back through a different lens and so much resentment, so much judgment, so much shame cycles, just so much of the negative interactional pattern that we had that I felt that we had about our kids, that I felt that we had about your feelings about my family because, these things are hereditary.
Speaker 3:There is a strong genetic link to these things and I think a lot of times we begin to recognize them in ourselves when we see them in our kids. So I think sometimes that's because it's like whoa, I was just like this, or I had so many of these same things, or I struggled with this, and sometimes that comes out like and I don't want my kid to have to.
Speaker 3:I've learned. I had to struggle with that. I don't want them to have to struggle with that. So we have a big reaction. But then I think in the case of me and I think this is very common it's different than my kids. It's honestly different than my mom too, so it's like oh well, that's not me.
Speaker 1:I don't Right Like what it looks, like what you struggle with, right.
Speaker 3:But then as a parent, I think we do a lot of research for our kids, right. So we see, oh well, this is something that's happening to them, what could that mean for them? But then you learn there are a lot of ways, like we already said, that ADHD can present and like, oh well, I don't do that, I'm not hyperactive, I have no problem sitting. I had no problem sitting in class.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:So of course I never looked like the kid that had ADHD. So that got dismissed, we moved on.
Speaker 1:What is ADHD? Let's just try to give a quick little primer on ADHD and because I think that that point that you're making makes a lot of sense with this. So ADHD is something that impacts three key domains inattention, impulsivity and hyperactivity and it's a continuum of severity within each of those domains. So ADHD and I think that to this point of what you're saying, like, for example, some individuals might have more of a challenge when it comes to impulsivity or hyperactivity than they do within attention, or some might struggle more within attention than they do with impulsivity and hyperactivity, and so that is why sometimes it is really hard to clarify and define specifically, like you were saying, like well, it looked different for me than it did my mom, and so then you kind of like oh, you know, that doesn't fit me, and I think that it is just important to understand that there is. This is very varied, this is very case specific, this is very individualized, but these are the three areas that are impacted.
Speaker 3:And then I think specifically within that and we're going to do this, but there are differences in how ADHD presents in women and men same as in boys and girls, and I think that one of the things that tends to be true is not always true, but for women to be true is not always true, but for women it comes more internal.
Speaker 3:This sort of hyperactivity, impulsivity and attention is more an internal thing than an external. So you think about all these kids in school and I know that a lot of moms are learning now as moms that they are wondering about this for themselves, this ADHD that they never would have been sort of flagged in school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because maybe they weren't having a tough time sitting down and they weren't you know blurting stuff out or whatever. But internally there was a lot of activity Right and still now. Yeah, and so I think that, again, this is the nuance of ADHD. I think the way ADHD has historically been talked about has been very formulaic and has been very specific to boys. That's right.
Speaker 3:Shocker yeah that all the research was done on boys and men.
Speaker 1:Exactly. There has not been adequate research done on ADHD and the impact on women, and I think that oftentimes this is what confuses the conversation is a lack of understanding about the nuance, the complexity and the variability of ADHD.
Speaker 3:Right, I knew one person when I was growing up who I only knew of one person who had been diagnosed with ADHD, and it was very much sort of that classic presentation.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think one of the things for me that was really enlightening is I don't have a problem with attention necessarily, but if I go through the criteria for hyperactivity and impulsivity when it comes to ADHD, I'm like yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, and I think I just but I never struggled with school really, because I could sit there and focus on whatever was going on in school and so it was like, oh yeah, you're fine. And so, again, I just think you've got to understand these categories, you have to understand the nuance of it. You also have to think about gender, you also have to think about all of these factors. There are other concerns or mental health diagnoses that often come with ADHD depression, anxiety, substance abuse and autism and autism is very complex as well. It's a spectrum. There's a spectrum of severity, there's a spectrum of symptom presentation, but there is a lot of research that is being done and has been done that does see overlap between ADHD and autism.
Speaker 3:Well, I think a lot of people too have just been diagnosed in their histories Like maybe I know, especially for women you don't have ADHD, you have anxiety. It's just these things. And yes maybe it is presenting with some anxiety, but maybe it's just a hyperactive mind to these things.
Speaker 3:And yes, maybe it is presenting with some anxiety, but maybe it's just a hyper active mind. You know, I think I cannot remember who it was, but I posted another thing. I'll try to post it again this week. But he had these like 10 common things in women, that who have ADHD, and one of the things was their brain cannot rest. And you know, it comes out either like overthinking interaction or you finally sit down to rest at the end of your day and you start at the beginning of your day and you work your way all the way through it and people just say, oh, that's just anxiety, you're just anxious. And I think that that's one of the ways and we're going to get into some of how we, as partners, minimize this struggle for each other and say, well, just stop overthinking. You're overthinking.
Speaker 3:You are stressing yourself out rather than that is the way your brain is processing your day. Do you like it? No, does it have a negative impact on your partner and maybe even your kids? Sure, I can say for sure, mine does. But that doesn't mean I'm choosing that I'm not just indulging, overthinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that that I'm not just indulging, overthinking, yeah, and I think that that's a big thing. Oftentimes with ADHD, people talk about it like it is just a matter of willpower. It's a matter of like, well, just don't do that, you're having trouble focus. We'll just focus, Like, get a system, you know, like you know here's all this kind of stuff, like you just need to try harder, rather than recognizing that it is actually like a, like a different way that someone's brain works. And also, you know there's a, there's a key component in here.
Speaker 1:Like dopamine is a big part of ADHD and you should probably write and dopamine being that part of your brain that kind of creates interest, pleasure, enjoyment, kind of the thing that makes you excited about stuff. You eat a piece of chocolate cake and, man, it's so delicious. That's a little bit of dopamine. You go on a run and you just feel really good and you feel energized. That's dopamine.
Speaker 1:And for people with ADHD, what they're beginning to see is that there's just a deficit in the dopamine and in other words, they need a lot more dopamine to kind of be at a baseline of feeling good, feeling engaged, whatever it might be. The brain works differently and dopamine is different in someone who has ADHD and so it's not just like, hey, you should try harder. There's, there's actually a chemical neurological difference and so people with ADHD, a lot of times they experience a lot of shame, a lot of judgment, a lot of being belittled of just like, oh, I'm abnormal, there's something really wrong with me, I can't be like other people or do things like other people do, I can't pay attention like other people, I can't focus like other people, and that level, that feeling of shame, is really destructive and, if you think about that, especially for kids.
Speaker 3:Right. So what I was just going to say is and I think one of the ways that that starts to come between couples is well one I mean couples can easily shame each other right. Or we can swim in self-shame.
Speaker 1:Well, let's just say, like I mean before I had an awareness of this for myself and we kind of were recognizing it in our kids. I was much harder on our kids than I needed to be because I was responding this way.
Speaker 3:This was one of the primary things. That was one coming between us, but two was motivating a lot of our education around this, Because while I knew as much as I knew and you have a PhD in medical family therapy- from a medical school, I should know more than I know.
Speaker 3:Well, I actually didn't even mean it like that, although maybe what I meant was like we knew a lot, like we did know a lot, and we were even saying like, yes, this does look like this for our kids, or some of them in particular, at least initially, but it wasn't necessarily changing the way we responded to them. And then that was coming between us, because maybe I started to soften faster and like, hey, we need to shift, we can't just say they should be trying harder. You can't just and not.
Speaker 3:Maybe this is what happened. And I was getting really frustrated with you, Like I don't think that you are allowing the information we are learning to impact your treatment of this kid or your expectations or how you interact with them.
Speaker 1:Is that? Yeah, yeah, and I and I also just grew up in a try harder family system, which is which was also part of it Like part of what.
Speaker 1:Part of my response. Like I grew up where kids were to be responsible, were to obey, were to do what they were told were to do, you know, and if you didn't, you were just supposed to try harder. And so I think that that also, overlaid on all of this, really impacted it and I have to be honest, I didn't like that, I didn't like that system, but I still was employing that system with my own kids.
Speaker 3:Well, as a little kid, you didn't like it. It didn't lead to relationship that you want for us with our kids. I mean in terms of how you felt as a relationship, even as an adult, with your family. And though you did it.
Speaker 1:There was enough fear that, like it happened, yes, I was motivated by fear. So it's like, yeah, did I like it?
Speaker 3:No, was I able to comply? Yes, so, like you know, and I'm a lot kinder to our kids. But that doesn't mean so. I'm already have the relationship piece and they should do the thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I was definitely motivated by fear, and thankfully, I mean, I don't think our kids are really motivated by fear. And so there was.
Speaker 3:They absolutely are not.
Speaker 1:There was some. That's why there was maybe some Resistance, some resistance, and so, yeah, so I think that, again, this is how these things begin, I think, to emerge. Again, this is how these things begin, I think, to emerge. And. I think it's important like there's this great book, one of the most helpful books I've ever read on ADHD, called ADHD 2.0.
Speaker 3:I would recommend it for we can put a link. I'll link it in our Instagram, but also on the podcast.
Speaker 1:I believe it's in chapter two of the book. There's this great list and it talks about ADHD, as it is a long list of paradoxes, which is the inability to pay attention, the ability to hyper-focus, the inability to be organized but around specific things, to be very, very organized, and it's just this I think it was that was one of the most helpful things for me to think about, because oftentimes this is what someone will say Well, when you care about it, you can focus, but if you don't care about it, you can't, which then means you you're willfully choosing not to, or or you could, you could focus on this, because you can focus on your video games, or you can focus on your you know garage your garage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your unique area of interest and I think that, again, that is one of the challenging nuances of ADHD is that there's all these paradoxes where it looks like you can do the thing that you're saying you can't do, but really it has a lot to do with how the brain works, how dopamine is received in someone's brain and body, and then the subsequent actions and behaviors that come from that, and so I would really recommend anyone who wonders about these things or finds themselves frustrated with what would, quote-unquote, look like inconsistencies of their children or of their partner, even of themselves. That might be a really helpful list just for you to look through, because I think it gives a really good picture of how nuanced and complex and variable ADHD is.
Speaker 3:I think, in heartbreaking. So what I'm thinking now is so two of the most common questions we received when I asked like so what would you like to hear us talk about? Two major themes, were they're related. So one of them is like I am the default parent and I have ADHD. Oh, how can I do both of these things? It's too much, and how can I explain to my partner?
Speaker 3:the overwhelm, I feel all of the time when they may say things like if you were just more organized, or you just need a better system, you're making yourself stressed out.
Speaker 1:Which, let's be honest, were things that I would say to you. I would look at Aaron and be like, well, you just need to try harder at getting your systems Right.
Speaker 3:Right, or you would employ a lot of systems for me, yep, and like just do this. This is how we keep this organized.
Speaker 1:This is how you know, on Mondays we'll do this, on Tuesdays We'll do this, all of that kind of stuff, stuff. You had a lot of ideas for me which was a huge slap in the face in terms of like Steven, like first of all, do you know what the default parent is? And honestly at that time you did not Right and do you write. Do you know what ADHD is and how what this like actually feels like experientially?
Speaker 3:And the answer was no, and I think for this partner, this ADHD and default parent, what their partner needs to know is how close they live to burnout and overwhelm all of the time, and one of the other things that this guy I cannot believe I didn't write down in my notes for this show, this, this um, real, he did, he's excellent Um, but he also said for this person this, and he was not specifically talking about the default parent. But it is so true for this default parent, who also has ADHD, that when they accomplish something major, like when something good does happen, when they do the thing, there isn't even a sense of pride, they don't even celebrate. It's just relief, it's over. And.
Speaker 3:I think that that speaks at least to me. It spoke to and I know a lot of people cause they responded to that part too how sad they are for themselves.
Speaker 3:Like because we want to be able to be proud of these things. Of course we want to be modeling for our kids pride and these massive and major accomplishments because we are able to do them, but mostly it just feels like you know, just that sweet relief that it's, it's over, that I don't have to worry about that anymore, that that's not hanging over me, and I think that that what those people, what I needed, what I still need, is for my partner and all of our partners in this situation to know the intensity of overwhelm, how active our brain is all the time, how close we are to burnout, and to be very aware of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because the way I was communicating and the way we often hear the default parent, the ADHD default parent, communicating, is that in a sense, they feel like morally judged in a way, well, it's just because, like you're doing something wrong, well, you're not strong enough, like there's this really like judgmental, like the problem is you judgmental like the problem is you, and then I think that where this really impacts the couple dynamic is that person probably already believes that.
Speaker 3:They already have a story to that and we're going to have some practical things at the end for you all to keep in mind in these things.
Speaker 3:But you need to know those stories for yourself and for your partner, because when you would tell me it's your fault and, to be clear, stephen never actually said it, honestly, probably partners you're not actually saying this is your fault, but in a thousand ways you are, by Stephen trying to implement new systems for me and like, hey, well, maybe if you tried this and you know how I do this and you know if you did whatever, it still communicates the same thing.
Speaker 1:So I think that this is a really, really, really big part of couples connecting around. This is, I have found in all the couples and individuals and and even within you know our conversations, whatever, oftentimes with ADHD, there's a deep, deep story of shame that gets repeated again and again and it's usually associated with this idea of you know what. My whole life I felt a little different. I, you know, school was this for me, me or which is it's pretty polarized, it's either usually.
Speaker 3:school was terrible and I was so distracted and disinterested and I didn't succeed, or school was a breeze. I had no problem at all and, of course, I was successful and I didn't even have to try.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 3:Until something happened.
Speaker 1:Right Until I went to.
Speaker 3:A graduate school experience? Uh, yeah, or something you know.
Speaker 1:I, I, I started working and I had to you know, do this, or I got a family and you know, like there's always there's there's some story of like I've always felt a little different. I've always felt like I I've done things a little different than everyone else and I've always felt the pressure that I needed to be like everyone else and I needed to like from the standpoint of I needed to do things, like it would be easier to be around me if I was just doing things like my siblings.
Speaker 3:See, I think that's the one side of it, and maybe that's the male side of it, because I think for me school was not hard. I did not have to try that hard. I was like, wow, these people.
Speaker 1:But you're also highly intelligent, so that's probably part of it. I think that's pretty common too.
Speaker 3:I think that we people can pass these things. So it does feel like until it doesn't. And then it's like why can't I do this anymore? Why can't I? I've always been able to do all the things. Why can't I just do the normal stuff, like why can't I implement your systems? Why can't? Why am I feeling as overwhelmed as I'm feeling? This is not normal for me.
Speaker 1:And within that so within either those two categories there's just a feeling of shame, like I am the problem. I am deficient.
Speaker 3:I am, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:And then the external messaging supports that and just says yeah, you're the problem. Yeah, You're not doing it. Yeah, you should be able to. I don't understand why I can do it. Why can't you you? Know, all this kind of stuff, and I think that it's really important for partners to understand that story of shame, because that is the root cause of defensiveness Right, I think and inaction like things not changing.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, there can be no action when you're in a shame spiral, right, right. But then also that's talk about resentment, because you don't understand or you're making me feel all these things I never wanted to feel again. Okay, so that's the one thing, but we have to flip to the when it's the non-default parent with the ADHD.
Speaker 1:Sure Sure, yes. So so go right ahead and flip to that.
Speaker 3:So that was another and maybe even more common popular theme and, honestly, we see a lot of couples like this where the, so the default parent not only is the default parent, they also have a partner who has a different brain. They have ADHD and there is so much misunderstanding.
Speaker 1:And it's like I've got another child.
Speaker 3:That is often how it is communicated. I have to yes, I'm not taking care of my children and have to have all of these allowances, because that's ultimately what this person hears is. You just have to have all of these allowances, because that's ultimately what this person hears is. You just have to let them be.
Speaker 1:Right, well, I, I and you know so you're the default parent, who's you know, carrying all of the, the burden of, you know, the mental load, the visible labor, the emotional labor, all of those things. And then it, the real feeling, is like I cannot rely on my partner to help. In fact, I have to do more for my partner. What, like, what is this? This is, this is just like I'm not parenting with someone. And and then there's a feeling too, of like and I'm upset about it. But if I get upset about it and I communicate it, my partner just wilts in shame or gets really defensive and angry and withdraws, which is another expression of shame.
Speaker 1:And so basically, we have no way to communicate about this and I, the default parent, just feel again overwhelmed, in a sense, like I'm being too, like I have no way, like like I, like I have no way, I have no resolution, I have no way to solve this, I have no way out.
Speaker 3:Right. You just have to keep accepting that. This is the situation, which again speaks to why we need to know each other's stories, because very likely that is also a deeply rooted place for them, like I'm, so I'm still taking care of everybody.
Speaker 3:Oh so you're still okay, so this is all still on me and you are just doing whatever it is and then occasionally like go, and you know I use our example of the garage because I feel like I'm overwhelmed and doing a thousand things inside and Stephen's like today's the day to make sure our garage is organized and in tip top shape. That is not everybody's expression of that and, honestly, that's only happened a few times, but it's a very like. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so one of the things that happens with ADHD is you have a tendency to focus on the wrong thing, and that is one of the ways that I actually begin to question if maybe I struggled with that is because I have a tendency to focus on the wrong thing at the wrong time, and it becomes really important. It becomes really necessary that this garage gets cleaned. You know this and yeah, so I think that that was an expression of that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think that that was an expression of that, but we're a little different, because what we're talking about is when the default parent doesn't have ADHD and their partner does. We would probably consider both of ourselves as having the neurodivergence.
Speaker 3:Yes, again, yours is not currently Right. That's a unique um constellation as well. Okay, so then that is.
Speaker 1:the next thing, though, is when both partners have adhd, because it is a special thing all on its own, but there actually is typically some goodness in it, because there is some understanding a little more level of like hey, and I think that this, this was the revolutionary thing in our marriage, I think, is when and again I'm not claiming I do not have a formal diagnosis or anything like this, but I do think that I understand it enough to know and that kind of thing but when I think that I so oftentimes was pretty harsh in my perspective of Aaron, and then Aaron you started to kind of be like, hey, you know what? Maybe I'm not the only one over here who's struggling with this, because I see these things, you know, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, and we really experienced them in our work life.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, I was thinking that too.
Speaker 1:Our relational life. You know pretty decent, you know top, you know like you know doing decent, I think, with that. But when we started working together somewhat six, seven years ago, we really began to have some problems to interacting with one another and it really came out in that way and I think finally, when I something, we had some really serious discouraging conversations.
Speaker 3:That ultimately were connective and healing.
Speaker 1:But initially they were dark and they saying like oh, I think that the ways that Aaron has felt, judged by me, she's saying I do the same thing and she feels very similar to how I feel. And I think, as I began to sort of accept more of the possibility of this being true for myself, it became more of a reality and allowed me to be like, oh, I've been upset with you for being this way, the lack of focus, the lack of follow through, whatever it is, and I've been doing that too, and I think that that, just like, let the tension subside between us and I think that this also speaks to the message that we received from someone in our community about that is where healing can start to take place, when we can both, and it doesn't have to be both partners having ADHD, although that was the message and that is what is most likely true for us.
Speaker 1:It has been so helpful because we look at each other not as one another's enemies and not as, like, letting one another down. I mean, we still have to like address it and try to be accountable to each other, but we're not. We're seeing it through the lens of like oh, you know what I struggle with that too, in this way, in this particular area, and we can think more of like how can we be supportive and accepting rather than judgmental and like taking it personally and being hurt by it?
Speaker 3:Sure, and not that there isn't hurt, because I think that that part there is cost to this there's benefit, there's unbelievable benefit and there is unbelievable hurt and cost and confusion about what we're allowed to ask, what we're allowed to count on, how we're allowed to trust each other. What this?
Speaker 3:means for some of the most core places in our relationship. And then the last thing, and then I think we should talk about the questions and what to do for this particular one. But is when the kid has it that like how that impacts the couple?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I do think that that changes a little bit, but I think it. It um. What we want is to feel like we're supporting our kid.
Speaker 1:So the the other couple dynamic is when you, as partners, are trying to think about how do we interact with our kids.
Speaker 3:Yeah. How do we parent this kid who yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, and I think it's, I think it's yeah, sorry, um, that it's.
Speaker 3:we want to feel like we're doing this thing together, that we're on the same page, that we share this, not just idea or not just this like diagnosis, but that we share in a path forward, that we are encouraging this kid, that we aren't that, that kid. And I forget too my goodness, my notes were not great here but, there's.
Speaker 3:I forget what the research says, but I think it's in that book too that a person with ADHD hears no and corrections like 90% more than their peers without ADHD. And that is the last thing I know that you and I want for our kid. And yet that was not always true. And, of course, like any parents, I hear Steven do those way more than I hear myself do them, which doesn't necessarily mean he is doing them more than I am doing them. I just hear him because I believe my best in him. I'm like, hey, don't say it that way. So I just think like we had not only being theoretically on the same parenting page, but actually in action and implementation, feeling like we are doing this in an intentional, on purpose way.
Speaker 1:Right, right and so practically that that is really tough, because I do think that there's there's the reality of for that couple. What happens is there is oftentimes in the couple dynamic the, the challenges and the resentments that ADHD has brought up. Then our experience in the relationship with their kid. Right. And it can feel very much like you were saying earlier. We just like. I want to correct this. I don't want this to be something that they're dealing with as-.
Speaker 3:Either because my partner is this way and I don't want them to be like my partner, or because I have struggled with this.
Speaker 1:And I think that this is another key point ADHD is not something that gets fixed or goes away. It's not like you got a cold and you can take some medicine and then your cold disappears. And I think that oftentimes that is a dynamic that I do hear between partners. Oftentimes it's like how do we get this ADHD to stop? And oftentimes, looking at kids and being like how do we get this to stop and ADHD doesn't stop.
Speaker 1:What you learn how to do is you learn how to interact with it. You learn how to be in relationship with it. You learn your process for engaging with it when there are quote, unquote the cost of it, but you also learn how to engage with it when also there are the, the kind of benefits or the cause. I do think that there's some aspects of ADHD that are um, you can there that can be positives, um, and so I think that that's another dynamic in dealing with kids is and you're and a partner is, you're learning how to relate to this thing called ADHD. You're not trying to get it to disappear, go away.
Speaker 3:But there are things to do. So I think yeah, there's ways that it becomes.
Speaker 1:You can grow and interact with it in a really fluid, accepting kind of productive way or-.
Speaker 3:Well, there is help, Because I think a little bit of what I'm hearing you say and I don't think it's what you mean. I know it's not what you mean and maybe I'm just like listening for the problem, but is that like, oh, there's nothing to do, must just accept there are things to do there is medication if you are someone who is open to that, and there are things to do if you're not. There are counseling things to do. There are proactive, even just for yourself, but also relationally understanding your family systems.
Speaker 3:And then there is real skill building, and I heard shoot some doctor I can't remember his name either talk about like if we have a kid who wears glasses and we would never. We took him to the doctor, they said he needed glasses and we would never be like he. We have a kid who wears glasses and we would never. We took him to the doctor, they said he needed glasses and we would never be like he's probably fine.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:He doesn't need that. Even though he's telling us like his eye is sore, he can't see like we. Believe him we in the same way, which doesn't mean and I think that there are a lot of good reasons to question any of these things. So you have to find the system that works best for your family. But there is something that can work best for your family. That is what I would want.
Speaker 1:That is right, there are tools, for sure, and that is. That is kind of a subjective thing, because everyone has to decide for themselves what they're willing to do and what they want to do, but I think overarching like what I am thinking about is but there. But your family system also needs to understand the relational interaction between ADHD Like how is our family Correct?
Speaker 1:How is our family, what is our process for relating with one another around this thing called ADHD? And there is a way to do that. That is loving, that is caring, that is accountable, that is accepting and so forth and so on. Thanks for being with us today and don't forget to look for next week's episode, where we describe and explain the specific relational process that can help couples navigate how they relate to ADHD in their parenting partner relationship, with more connection and less conflict. Today's show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents and remember, working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.