Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
"I'm Not Enough" vs "I'm Not Important": The Root of Couple Conflicts
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Shame might be the most misunderstood force in your relationship. Not the obvious kind—but the subtle variety that hijacks conversations without you even realizing it's there. In this revelatory episode, we uncover how shame operates as the hidden engine behind the most common relationship complaints: "My partner is so defensive" or "All they do is criticize me."
Through a realistic case study of Brian and Justine's kitchen conversation, we demonstrate how quickly a simple interaction can spiral into criticism and defensiveness—not because either partner is trying to be difficult, but because both are caught in shame's grip. We reveal the two fundamental shame categories: "I'm not enough" (manifesting as defensiveness) and "I'm not important enough" (emerging as criticism).
What makes this particularly challenging is that most of us don't recognize shame when we're experiencing it. Instead of thinking "I feel shame," we believe "Nothing I do is ever enough" or "I'll never get what I need from my partner." By learning to identify these patterns and understanding the shame trigger beneath them, couples can develop a shorthand for catching these cycles before they escalate.
The episode offers practical strategies for breaking free from shame-based communication, including recognizing when you've entered a shame pattern, receiving influence from your partner, clarifying conversation goals, and creating simple repair moments. These tools transform what could be prolonged arguments into opportunities for deeper connection.
Ready to understand what's really happening beneath the surface of your most frustrating communication patterns? Listen now and discover how addressing shame could be the breakthrough your relationship needs. And if you're finding these insights valuable, remember to subscribe and leave a review to help others discover the show.
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Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents a show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Here are our parents our dad, dr Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, erin Mitchell.
Speaker 2:Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Stephen Mitchell, I'm Erin Mitchell and on today's show we, like Erin and I, were reviewing the you know kind of the case study and the transcript for the show here and I just said to her like I really think that this is the key to couple communication.
Speaker 1:I think that what today's show is about is one of the most central keys to what perpetuates bad communication.
Speaker 2:Ooh, great reframe.
Speaker 1:Topic is shame and how shame looks, because everybody knows the word shame but people aren't really aware of how shame might be coming up in their own life and in their own communication cycles. And I think this is that.
Speaker 2:Yes, and how it can ruin your communication if you're not aware of it, right.
Speaker 2:So we're going to get into talking about shame. So sounds great, doesn't it? But before we do that, I do want to let y'all know. I don't know if you know, so I'm just going to let you know so that you do know. We have a YouTube channel, so if you want to get a little visual of what it's like for us to do these podcasts and see us up close and personal, you can go to our YouTube channel Couples Counseling for Parents and catch snippets of the podcast. So we'd love for you to go there, subscribe, take a look, all right.
Speaker 2:So how we came to this idea? So I was scrolling through our Instagram account, looking at past posts, looking at our YouTube channel past podcast, and was just reading through some of the comments and that the community was leaving and I just kept hearing this theme and it's something that we hear so much from the couples that we work with about communication with their partner, and it oftentimes gets communicated in ways like my partner is so defensive. I try to tell my partner something and they say me too and make it about them or my partner doesn't understand me.
Speaker 1:I think the other one that really stands out to me is my partner refuses vulnerability. My partner won't go there, my partner doesn't know how to be vulnerable or refuses it Anything along those lines.
Speaker 1:There's something there connected to shame and so what and I think that the reason that this is an important podcast episode because, trust us, we don't like talking about shame any more than you like listening to shame, but we're going to try to make it really, really practical about how it might be coming out for you, how it might be interrupting, because it doesn't track. For most people I don't feel shame or I'm not ashamed, or my partner's not ashamed. That doesn't resonate. But we're going to show you how it creeps in. It's an insidious little thing and and it really is very present in most negative communication cycles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So this is one of those deeper level things that if you were to sit in a coaching session with Aaron and I, and this is the kind of conversation that we would have with a couple and what we would be trying to help them understand. So let's take, for example, brian and Justine.
Speaker 1:Oh, love them.
Speaker 2:You know, it's that special time of day when work is over, the kids have just come back from school, the house is just chaos, and this is the first time Brian and Justine have seen each other since they left in the morning when the house was just chaos. So basically, you know it's been a really long day, Brian and Justine. They get back, they get the kids settled with a snack and they go into the kitchen and start, you know, dinner for the evening. And as we're cooking dinner, Justine says you know, I've been so wiped today. I've really been feeling the overwhelm of life. It's feeling heavy right now and I found myself wishing a lot for the days where I had some more space to exercise, sit, have a quiet cup of coffee and just feel a little more sane. Brian responds tell me about it. I was really tired today too. I didn't get much sleep at all last night.
Speaker 2:Justine takes a deep breath. If she's honest, she feels hurt by Brian not picking up on what she's saying. She's really been feeling lost. She loves her life as a parent, but she has also lost part of who she used to be. She's been thinking about it a lot and she's trying to tell Brian about what she's feeling, but she gets it. He's had a long day and he's just, you know, stating he was tired too. So she tries again. Justine says yeah, you were, you were up late with Kyle, Poor guy having a nightmare. Thanks for helping him out. She pauses.
Speaker 2:You know, I've been trying to think through how much our lives have changed in the last eight years with the kids, and I've been noticing that there are some things that I didn't expect to change so drastically, and I feel a little shell-shocked by how I feel about myself these days, Brian. No joke, I can't even get a good night's sleep anymore. Justine, Brian, I'm trying to talk with you about how I've been feeling and some things I'm trying to work through, and I don't feel like you're paying attention, Brian. What do you mean? I'm not paying attention? I'm trying to work through and I don't feel like you're paying attention. Brian, what do you mean? I'm not paying attention? I'm standing in this kitchen making dinner with you talking. How can I pay more attention, Justine?
Speaker 2:Brian, all of that is true, but I'm trying to tell you some big stuff I've been feeling and you keep just saying yeah, me too. How about you ask me a question about what I mean. Are you even listening to me, Brian, Justine? Are you kidding me? So now I'm not asking you the right questions. It's always the same thing with you. You have some criticism, I try and make a change to meet your criticism, and you just come up with another one. Last week, you were complaining about me not helping with dinner. Well, I'm in here helping with dinner and now I'm not listening to you and asking the right questions. Nothing is ever enough for you, Justine, and I'm just not important enough for you to care about what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1:What I really, really, really really like about this case example that you wrote, Stephen, is how and I'm using this word lightly innocent. It is like it's kind of a normal conversation, it doesn't? It's not like the quote unquote that bad, or?
Speaker 1:like um, but it is. And this is the stuff that like, stacked up day after day, week after week, it is bad, it feels bad. You know, brian walks away literally like actually feeling like it. Really I cannot measure up for Justin and Justin walks away feeling like it does not matter how you know how I try to approach it If I try to take this angle or that angle or say this or say that, like I'm never going to have my need of being seen and known met.
Speaker 1:So like you're right, it doesn't matter, I'm ridiculous for trying You'll never're right, it doesn't matter, I'm I'm ridiculous for trying you'll never engage me. And he's like I'm ridiculous for trying, like why bother?
Speaker 2:yeah, and, and I think so. What you're saying is is this is a very common community like shame communication pattern for partners correct.
Speaker 2:there's kind of these two categories of how it comes out, and you were kind of alluding to it. For Brian, and his category is sort of the I'm not good enough. You're telling me I'm failing and my best efforts are falling short. In the way that that feeling of you're saying I'm not good enough gets communicated is through defensiveness. He's sitting there saying like what are you talking about? Are you kidding me? Something else Like what is ever going to be good enough? And that's where that defensiveness comes through.
Speaker 2:For Justine, her category of shame is that I'm not important enough. You're telling me I'm not important enough for you to set aside your defensiveness or your own experience or even your own needs, right here and listen to me and hear what I'm trying to say. You're saying you're more important and I'm not, and that comes out in criticism. And so I think that one of the ways to identify shame in that shame pattern in your own parenting partner communication is when you sense defensiveness and criticism. You need to begin to think like maybe we're here, maybe we're in a place of shame.
Speaker 1:I think what's important here is I feel like there's a lot of people and I think you should really check in with yourself. This is that moment of pause for you, one if you tend to feel more like the Justines. Do you recognize criticism in that script? Because I think it is very clear to the bryans that justine was approaching with criticism I don't think like even for me. I read the script a couple times. Steven, also read it out loud to me before we just read it, um, but it's not.
Speaker 1:That doesn't? That's not what stands out to me, sure, in this script, um, and that is because I trend toward Justine, I trend towards like she is begging, but really she's not talking about her.
Speaker 2:Well, she's trying to talk about herself. Yeah, it's a little hidden. It's a little hidden and her ache does come out with.
Speaker 1:You're not listening. Like please can you hear something about me? And now, this is not to criticize Justine. I think Justine is legitimately doing her best here, but I think Brian and the Bryans so readily see like, oh my gosh, she's just like one more thing. Nope, well, that's. Yeah, that was last week's need. Yes, of course I still want you to do dinner.
Speaker 1:But now this, and you don't ask the right questions and you're not listening, and I said it twice and my point is criticism can be subtle, yes, and just because you don't feel like you're being critical doesn't mean your partner doesn't feel criticized.
Speaker 2:And I think the same goes for defensiveness. You know Brian might not be aware of his defensiveness. It could feel subtle. So if you're the Brian's in this scenario, like, are you aware of your defensiveness? And I think the way to get at this, because I think a lot of people are like defensive, about being critical or defensive- and I'm like oh no, that's not me.
Speaker 1:Because again, we're trying to protect from shame, but go ahead.
Speaker 2:Is ask yourself in my relationship with my partner, do I find myself saying I am not enough, or do I find myself saying I am not important enough to my partner? If you feel that you are, those things could be true about you, or you get in those places. Then say and when I feel like I'm not enough, do I get defensive? Or when I feel like I'm not important enough, does it come out as criticism?
Speaker 1:Because here's the thing, every everything. Because I don't think most of us are walking around being like I'm just not important enough, I'm not enough. But I do think a lot of us say the things about like they'll never be vulnerable. That is the same thing as saying I am not important.
Speaker 2:They'll never understand me or they'll never want to understand.
Speaker 1:They can't understand me. They couldn't like that. That is a you know a different way of saying that. And then the I am not enough is it's never enough there you know, and they always, and there's always an ex need and there's because I don't. I mean, we've worked with a lot of couples at this point and people don't come in and say, like you know what the core of our problem is. I'm just not enough.
Speaker 1:I'm don't feel important enough, people don't know to say that that is not the thing that we feel or the thought that comes.
Speaker 2:So we're trying to give you some of the things that come up when shame might be.
Speaker 2:You and your partner might be in the shame pattern. These are some of the ways that you might feel. These are maybe some of the sentences and phrases you might say to one another, and I think another part of that is trying to paint for you a picture of what these different partners feel like. And we'll be right back. Ever felt like you just don't have the energy to argue with your partner anymore. That's exactly why we wrote Too Tired to Fight. Inside we share our conflict to connection equation, a simple framework that helps couples move from the same old arguments into connection, where you can actually feel heard, validated and able to repair after fights.
Speaker 2:And if you don't have time to sit down and read, we recorded an audio book too, so you can listen on the go. You'll find Too Tired to Fight anywhere books are sold or at couplescounselingforparentscom. And if you want us to walk you through these tools personally, we open just five new coaching spots each month. Each starts with a free 20-minute consultation. You'll find the link for the book and the free consult in the show notes Too Tired to Fight for parents ready to fight less and connect more. And now back to the show. You know, when we think about shame, you know, there's this idea that shame is connected to this feeling that someone has that somehow they are being told there's something wrong with them, like they're missing something, they're deficient in some way, and they either feel that way themselves or they feel like they're being told that by their partner.
Speaker 1:And then I think because the way that that registers for me, because I think what you're saying is true, but that is not how I experientially feel or think about that what I hear in my own shame moments is I'm never going to get what I want. My story is always going to be repeated. I'm asking too much maybe, but I don't think I'm asking too much. I just think you don't know how to give me what I want.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's so. That's part of how this shame pattern gets partners thinking. So a partner who is maybe in that place of I'm not enough, these are some things that might roll through their mind and it might not be this exact wording. So you know, kind of adjust it for who you are. But this feeling of I'm deficient, I'm unable to act and impact others positively, I lack what is needed for the moment and I feel foolish for hoping that someone would accept me.
Speaker 2:I feel shame because I think that person who's not enough just wants someone to be like look everything you're doing, all your work, all your efforts, all your heart, all your, you know, I see it, I see it. And it doesn't have to be perfect and it doesn't have to be flawless and I like, I appreciate that and I accept it. And when they receive criticism, what they have a sense that they're being told is you are not accepted and that feels terrible. But then they also can feel terrible for even wanting it. I just shouldn't even want it. You know what, forget it, it doesn't even matter. You know what, if that's the way you're going to be, I'm just not even going to try. Then, if we go to the part, go ahead.
Speaker 1:One thing is, I do think a lot of times these partners continue to try, they continue to do the things, but they do protect with engagement Right.
Speaker 2:They're not vulnerable. They're not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot of guardedness even in the doings of things, and it can feel like, oh great, so now you just do stuff.
Speaker 2:Right, and you're full of and you've seemed about it and you're resentful and all that Right right, right, there's a lot of loud silence about doing stuff. Then for the partner who's in that category of I'm not important enough, that partner who can sometimes become critical there, some of the things that they might be thinking or feeling is I'm deficient, I lack whatever. It is that I would need to get others to care about me or want me, and I feel foolish for wanting to be wanted or wanting to be known. I feel ashamed.
Speaker 1:I think that I feel silly for wanting this is lower on the list. And it is more of a a. Why can't you give like? These are basic human needs Sure.
Speaker 1:What's wrong with you that you can't see? Yeah, I just want to be known. I of course I care, and I this is one of those moments in that, the case study that I really like that Justine's like she takes two deep breaths. You know, I know he's trying, like of course he had a bad day. He's missing the cue that I'm trying to talk about, like my experience of overwhelm and my experience. So I'm going to try again, but then it's just like you're the problem. I don't think Justine walks out of that conversation is like oh, you know, like there's something wrong with me for not.
Speaker 2:But she does say I'm tired of wanting this, Like I will, and then Justine starts to shut down a little bit.
Speaker 1:Justine and these are the people that are like my partner refuses vulnerability. They don't even recognize it when I'm, you know, like slamming them in the face with that conversation.
Speaker 2:You know which one do you trend towards. Think about it Like who? Who am I in this, and maybe you're a little bit of both, but generally we trend towards one of these categories. And then, why does this matter? And, in terms of like, how do you solve this? How do you get out of a shame pattern in your communication?
Speaker 2:I think one of the first things is the reason this is important is because this is the way for you and your partner to access empathy for one another in these moments, and empathy being the ability and the capacity to refer to your own lived experience so that then you can understand someone else's lived experience. For example, brian and Justine are both having a lived experience of shame. They have to be aware of how their shame operates and then how their shame operates in their communication so that they can recognize. Wait a second, I'm feeling defensive, you're feeling critical. Are we in this shame pattern? And then this is it. You know what I don't like feeling shame. Shame doesn't feel really good. Huh, I imagine that my partner doesn't like shame and shame doesn't feel good for them either. Maybe they're trying to tell me something that I'm not hearing. And if both partners can do that, which would be empathy, then it can stop the pattern and they can then actually begin to have a conversation. And then empathy has to lead to action. And so what does that mean? What kind of action could that lead to?
Speaker 2:I think one of the first things is how they hear one another, that the defensiveness and criticism would then become cues for both of them to say what's going on here rather than continuing on. And then, from that, from that action step. There's this idea, and that you know the Gottmans actually talk about this quite a bit, as it's a super important part of being in a couple relationship is that you can receive influence from your partner. So if your partner says to you you know what I'm feeling criticized by you right now, or your partner looks at you and says, you know what I feel like you're being defensive, that, rather than saying no to that, you receive the influence of your partner and say okay, okay, help me understand. How is that so? And again, this is all activated by empathy. This is all how empathy can lead to action. But it helps you hear defensiveness and criticism as a cue that maybe you're in this shame pattern, and that it invites you to receive influence from your partner.
Speaker 1:The way that this practically shakes out I would say almost all of the time is that I notice you being defensive before. I'm like, am I being critical? Sure Am I trying to communicate something about myself with a criticism of you. So, and I think that I would assume you feel, the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would hear criticism before I would hear my own defensiveness.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think the reality is. I think that we all balk. At that name I don't feel like a critical person. I honestly don't. I really do think I'm trying to express something about myself. Usually, when I play it back in my mind or we're talking about how a conversation went, I'm like oh yeah, well, I was trying to say I was sad by pointing out how you did X.
Speaker 2:Y and Z yeah.
Speaker 1:I can see how that was a little.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 1:And I do that, and I don't mean to do that, that is never my intention, and I think that the Justines, the Aarons, in these worlds, they really are trying to think about like, okay, how can I say this In this? In fact, that is one of the things we hear most often is like it does not matter how I approach this conversation.
Speaker 2:I'm like my partner is going to get defensive, they're going to get defensive, Just like that partner would say it doesn't matter, no matter what I do, my partner is going to tell me I'm not enough. It's not enough. Both partners have a version of that.
Speaker 1:And my point is this own it about yourself. I don't need to prove to Stephen I'm not a critical person. I can. Actually, over the years I have come to see, I do try to express myself, my own feelings, by showing what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Wrong Like a criticism. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, I thought you were saying what I said was wrong.
Speaker 1:No, no, by pointing out like okay, this is how it didn't work. This is how it didn't work. This is how it did. This is what you did. That wasn't right and I'm like that's not criticism. I'm trying to describe something that doesn't mean it doesn't feel like criticism. So my point is you do not have to feel like a defensive person, you do not have to feel like a critical person for it to be your partner's experience.
Speaker 1:And the point is is, if you're both actually really trying to engage this conversation, believe them, Believe your partner, believe like, okay, I don't have to think that that was criticism, but it felt like criticism, got it.
Speaker 2:And move on.
Speaker 1:You don't need to prove. You're not defensive, You're just not going to take it, You're not going to just be like you're right. One more thing I did wrong. No, I think that the Stevens, the Bryans in this world are like I do feel tired of feeling like, no matter what I do. There's another thing I didn't, and that is that's a hard spot to be.
Speaker 2:Another action step is then you and your partner can consider what kind of conversation you're hoping to have. What you can do is say look, is this a conversation where you just want me to listen to what you're saying and connect with what you're saying? That's it. Is this a conversation where you want me to listen to what you're saying and come up with a solution, or is this a conversation where you want me to connect, like listen and connect, and then you do want to solve and figure out what to do.
Speaker 2:And I think that why this is important is because in this conversation with Brian and Justine, this was just a listen and connect kind of conversation, and if Brian could think about it in those terms, then I think, hearing what Justine had to say, he could hear it more, as she might be like hey, Brian, this is just a listen and connect kind of conversation. I'm trying to share something with you and I would love for you to interact with that and that could even be an easier way into what Justine is wanting and what, and a cue for Brian where he's like oh okay, yeah, we've talked about this. I get that Like it mean that you think I'm a terrible person or what I have to say isn't important. You're just wanting for me to listen and connect here, and I think that you can have these different categories and you can communicate with your partner. Hey, I want to have a listen and solve conversation. I want to have a listen, connect and solve conversation.
Speaker 1:But I don't think we know what kind of conversation we're looking for before we start it. I think we notice that this is not the conversation we wanted when it starts.
Speaker 2:It's usually mid-conversation, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think the way to say that is like well, I think we've jumped too quick into solve. I don't know if this is a solve conversation, or maybe it was, or maybe it is and I'm not there yet. Or you finish and you're like, hey, I feel like this actually was a solved conversation and we never got there, whatever. But the point is is that when it goes a direction you don't want, it doesn't have to wash away any of the conversation. It doesn't have to be like never mind, you're jumping to fix it and I hated it, and never mind it can be like whoa, I think we moved too fast. I'm feeling like oh no, that's not what I was actually wanting. Can we come back to the listening? I just think we usually notice those things when it's not going like we wanted, rather than like Justine stirring her pot of rice or whatever, and she's like this is going to be a listening connect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's true, would that be best, yeah, but is that what happens? No, but I think that that can give you language for after it happens. You're like hey, in the future maybe we can use some of these categories that would help.
Speaker 2:So if we think about what would a repair look like, what might a script look like for Brian and Justine? Here's an example. I'll be Brian, you can be Justine, brian, justine, I was feeling criticized by you, but I can see I missed what you were saying. You know how we have been talking about me. Being defensive typically means I'm feeling like I'm not enough. You know feeling shame. Yes, brian. Well, I got embarrassed. I didn't pick up on what you were sharing and that I was just talking about myself. I'm sorry, I did that. What you were saying was important and I do want to hear about it.
Speaker 1:Justine says I appreciate that, brian. I got embarrassed too and I started to think he doesn't even want to know about me. That didn't have to be the conclusion I came to, and I escalated the situation by criticizing you. I appreciate you saying something, and I could have handled it better myself.
Speaker 2:Brian, sure I get it. Can you tell me more about what you were saying? I do want to know me more about what you were saying. I do want to know that conversation can be that simple I think it should be. If partners have these categories, if you know this process of how you get into a shame pattern, you can have a repair conversation that is this simple, this short, because both of you understand you know what we just got off track. We don't need to get lost in that dark place. We can just come back and we can say, hey, we're getting off into a pattern of communication. We don't want to. We can have these different cues for, like, how we can stop the process. You know I'm hearing defensiveness, I'm hearing criticism. Are we in that place? And so you and your partner? This can really be a shortcut and a solution for a lot of your communication misses, and we would really encourage you to listen to this podcast together and walk through it. Try to identify who you are and what you trend towards and what would be helpful cues for each of you to be able to shift out of the shame pattern.
Speaker 2:Today's show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast. Please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples, counseling for Parents, and remember working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.