Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
Beyond Date Night: Why Physical Closeness and Emotional Responsiveness Matter
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Feeling disconnected from your partner despite regular date nights and check-ins? You're not alone. This raw, insightful episode dives into one of the most common relationship challenges parents face: that persistent feeling that something's missing in your connection.
Through the relatable story of Joy and Grant, we unpack why simply spending time together doesn't automatically create meaningful connection. The problem isn't your busy schedule—it's understanding what connection truly means on a neurobiological level. Connection requires both physical closeness and emotional responsiveness, creating what attachment theory calls a "safe haven" and "secure base." These aren't just theoretical concepts but deeply human needs that follow us into adulthood and our romantic relationships.
We reveal why conflict often emerges from disconnection—one partner pushes for change while the other feels criticized for not doing enough. This "upshifting" versus "downshifting" dynamic creates misunderstanding rather than closeness. The breakthrough comes in recognizing that small, consistent acts matter more than grand gestures or occasional date nights. When you discover what specific actions make your partner feel truly seen and responded to, you can transform everyday moments into powerful connection points.
Ready to feel closer? Listen and we'll tell you how.
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Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents a show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Here are our parents our dad, dr Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, erin Mitchell.
Speaker 2:Hello and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr Stephen Mitchell, I'm Erin Mitchell and on today's show we want to talk about one of the most common statements that we hear from couples, which is we don't feel connected like we used to.
Speaker 3:The only thing I would add to that that I think I hear a lot at least is and we, we, we've been trying, but we don't know how to reconnect yeah, and so this is a very normal thing.
Speaker 2:That happens oftentimes after people or couples have kids, and so what do you do when you want to feel connected to your partner, but you don't feel connected to your partner? So we're gonna take a little walk. You know, I think I say that every time we're going to take a little journey with Joy and Grant. Wonderful and they're a busy couple and they find themselves running between work, school and sports every day of the week. Joy and Grant also sound like.
Speaker 3:Stephen and Aaron.
Speaker 2:They love their family, they love each other, but Joy and Grant don't really have much time in a day to actually see one another and talk and interact. They try and make sure to have a date night during the week, which is nice, but there's still a lingering feeling of not being close, of not feeling like they know what is going on in the other's world, and this uncertainty can lead to conflict for them. So, joy, she says to Grant hey, grant, I've been feeling a little distant from you lately. I just feel like we never really get any time to be together and talk. Grant, I know that's what our date night is for, right, trying to catch up. We don't get a lot of time together.
Speaker 2:Joy, I love the date night, but I still want to feel closer to you. Do you feel like we're close, grant? Well, yeah, I agree, we don't have a lot of time, but that's just the way it is sometimes, joy, I know, but I don't want it to just be that way. Don't you want it to be different too, grant? Sure, joy, but I feel like we're doing the best we can. There's not much more we can do. Joy, that sounds like you're just resigning to the way things are. I don't like the way things are, grant Well, joy, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not saying I love it either.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying what else can we do? I loved how you led into this the comment about how sometimes that feeling of being close and of not knowing what's going on in each other's world can lead to conflict. I thought, that was amazing, because I think that that is shocking to people. I think that even hearing you say it just now, I'm like that's right.
Speaker 2:I think I feel that way right now.
Speaker 3:I think I feel that way right now, but I think that this is why I really really like this particular topic is because feeling disconnected can make us feel activated, Sure, and we have conflict when we're activated because so say I mean Grant and Joy right, Right, Joy's feeling activated which makes her want to change something. Oh, there's a problem. I know what the problem is we aren't feeling connected. Oh, I'd like to solve that. Let's do something and solve the problem. I think Grant would say that he's feeling we are doing something right.
Speaker 3:This is common. This is what happens. Of course we are. There's nothing wrong, right?
Speaker 2:um, well, downshift in that feeling of like, feeling like he's hearing joy say there's something wrong, is what can feel activating to grant like I mean, we're like you're saying we're not doing enough, like we're trying right and and really what joy is trying to express is just a desire to connect, which grant also has, but joy hears him saying he doesn't want to have. So I think that this is Well.
Speaker 3:He also kind of says, not that he doesn't want to have it, but like this is how it is, which isn't saying I don't want it, but it is saying like we couldn't do anything different, right, we can't change anything, just be okay.
Speaker 2:Right, right, and thus we're in a conflict.
Speaker 3:The last thing about this is that it's someone's downshifting to someone's sort of upshifting, which is where conflict lives. Like I will make you see the problem. I will make you see there isn't a problem. I just really like that.
Speaker 2:And that's something we talk about the downshifting and the upshifting. We have a podcast on that as well.
Speaker 3:Also a book.
Speaker 2:If you'd like to search, that's right. We also have a book about it, but you can search the podcast archives or, you know, you can purchase the book. It's also an audio book, just so you know. But I think one of the things that needs to be defined to is what is connection? Because, because you use this word, they're not feeling connected and you're like well, we go on a date night. Well, you know, we try to check in with each other each night before we go to sleep, but there is a true feeling to connection. Connection comes from having a sense of physical closeness and emotional responsiveness. That adds up to feeling that my partner is someone I can go to when distressed, or someone that gives me the confidence that I can go into the world and live and act and explore.
Speaker 2:You said or and both so rather than or both. So basically, these are the definitions of what a safe haven and a secure base are, according to attachment theory, which is deeply supported by interpersonal neurobiology and the research that has been done on what allows human beings to feel connected, and it is this sense of being safe I have someone safe to go to and this sense of I have a place in which I can go out from and feel free to explore. And we talk about this a lot of times in terms of kids, but we sometimes forget to talk about it in terms of adult romantic relationships, because the same thing applies. We don't lose our desire for connection in these attachment terms when we become big people.
Speaker 3:Well, all I was going to say is we don't outgrow our need, because these are.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 3:This is a need. This isn't like, wouldn't that be nice? We need connection. People need it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And so it's not silly, it's not small, it's not juvenile, it's not immature. How we express these things certainly might be sometimes, especially in a more insecure or activated place, but the needs themselves, it's how we're made. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so I think this is why sometimes, when it's like, oh well, we have a date night once a week or we have a date night once a month, why it doesn't address these deeper needs, Because these are needs that are need consistency, need day to day expression and nurturing to build upon one another just like if you think about parenting, you need these small, consistent acts with your kids to help develop within them a sense of safety, closeness and connection.
Speaker 2:If you think about that example with kids, you know what do parents oftentimes try to do. They try to validate emotions. They try to be affectionate. They think about how to parent. They consider their kid. Often, when their kid expresses a need, they do their best to acknowledge it and meet the need.
Speaker 3:You encourage your kids to be the best version of themselves, to explore, to take risk all of these things, knowing that if life disappoints them as we all know life does they can come back to you, that you will be with them, that you will not shame them, that you will not tell them it was actually their fault, but you will support them and say this is really tough. I think the classic example and I can't remember if it's just because it's what lived in my brain or if it was actually the example a professor must have taught but is on a playground.
Speaker 3:You've got the parent on the side who's watching their kid do a brave new thing, and they're like, oh gosh, they've never stepped over these railroad ties before. And the kid sort of looks back before they do it and the parent sort of gives a little nod like, oh, look at you trying something new, you got this.
Speaker 2:Which is the secure base. I can try this risky thing because I know that. I have someone that I can depend on, and that's the whole moment. And then let's say that kid steps over the railroad, ties and trips and falls and hits their knee. Then when they are experiencing that pain or maybe they're crying or feeling disappointed, then that parent can come and provide that sense of safe haven, like I'm here in the midst of your distress.
Speaker 3:Right, I'm here. Yes, I can't. I didn't fix it, I don't need to. I'm with you, though. You don't have to do this discomfort alone.
Speaker 2:And guess what? You need that, and so does your partner, and I think that so often we don't think how we can do that for our partner, or that they need it, or that they should need it. You're an adult. You got to learn how to be self-sufficient. You got to learn how to be independent.
Speaker 3:Well, we've all heard that message at some point along the line, whether or not our parents intended to say it or not. But don't need so much. Or, like you, have a sibling who needs a lot, need less, or you know that's on you, you figure it out. And so we all come to our partners with some version of a story that says I'm figuring out my life, you figure out yours.
Speaker 2:And we'll be right back. Picture this it's late, the kids are finally asleep and, instead of feeling close, you and your partner are in another argument. We've been there. That's why we wrote Too Tired to Fight. The heart of the book is our conflict to connection equation. It's a step-by-step way to move out of the same draining conflicts and into connection where you feel heard, resolve, resentment and repair after fights. And if you don't have time to read, we made sure it's also available on audiobook so you can listen anytime.
Speaker 2:You can grab Too Tired to Fight anywhere books are sold or on our website. And if you're ready for hands-on support, we also coach couples through these tools step-by-step. We open five new spots a month, starting with a free 20-minute consultation. You'll find the link for the book and the free consultation in the show notes. Too tired to fight because even exhausted parents deserve connection. And now back to the show. The partner relationship is one of the primary relationships where there is a continuation of these attachment needs for connectivity, not a cessation of them. It's a continuation and that's what all the research on adult attachment talks about. That, yes, your caregiving relationships are some of the relationships that shape your attachment patterns the most, but they are not the only ones, and that actually a romantic relationship is a place where your attachment patterns are shaped as well and— Can be corrected Well, can shift right Can be corrected, Can be well, can shift right, Can become more secure.
Speaker 2:If they were less secure, or they can become less secure based on the quality of the relationship, and so, again, this all really matters. So Joy and Grant are saying hey, we don't feel connected, and they're like yeah, but Grant's like yeah, but we got a date night, Like we have an event that we do together. But that doesn't necessarily mean that these connective things of that secure base, that safe haven, the proximity, the emotional responsiveness, that those things are happening and taking place.
Speaker 3:I honestly think that that alone, that sentence you just said that just because you have a date night doesn't mean you're connecting is one of the most common reasons date nights are terrible. Yeah, because how often do we hear that they're awkward? Like yeah and it's their pressurized moments where, like you, better get it all in, because this is your one hour a week and they don't always go up, which again doesn't mean they're bad ideas. I don't mean that even a little bit, but they are not the fix is what I do mean, right?
Speaker 2:I mean, we've definitely had plenty of date nights that ended in conflict.
Speaker 3:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2:Part of that is because these kind of feelings of connection weren't present.
Speaker 3:Totally, and I think that that is especially true with parenting, because what feels and looks like connection to a parent might be very different than what felt and looked like connection before you were a parent. I know that that was true for us. Sure, I stopped. We went to the same restaurant every Friday for close to three years.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it was so fun until it wasn't. And then I had to break Stephen's heart and like I'm not enjoying, it anymore Like could we do something else? And you were like why?
Speaker 2:But this is our thing, but I love it. It's great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, anyway, that which is neither of those is good or bad, but it's being able to talk about it, to say it, to bring these things up in a way where you're not ashamed for wanting something more.
Speaker 2:And so I think that's how do you talk about it, how do you talk about this feeling of connection and fostering it and developing it in your parenting partner relationship? And I think you have to ask yourself, and you have to ask your partner, what feels connective to me, what feels connective to me, what feels connective to you? And again, uh, this goes a bit beyond things like the five love languages, which you know what. That's great, those aren't bad, but again, the this goes to that idea of the meaning behind the five languages, the meaning behind trying to do those things for your partner. That's, that's what's going to create that feeling of connection, cause I can use words of affirmation, but if there's not that sense of safety and connectivity, it doesn't really matter what I say, I can do, I can give gifts, but same thing, quality to all those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:This is a little layer below, and so you have to ask yourself what feels connective to me and to my partner. And I think some things to think about is small acts matter Absolutely. Small acts matter Absolutely. So what are the small acts that I could do on a daily basis, consistently, that would communicate this idea that I am close, I am someone who is responding to your emotional needs. How can I consistently communicate that in small acts?
Speaker 3:I think the word responding is a really important one for me here, because I think so often what I think partners like Joy, although she didn't actually say this, so I'm definitely projecting.
Speaker 1:Aaron here.
Speaker 3:I identified strongly with Joy in this, but I just want to know you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't feel like I know what happens in your day. I don't really have any sort of like guide for where you are. Are you okay? Are you making it? Because I feel really overwhelmed over here and I don't know how you're doing. I don't really feel like we know each other in some of those deeper places, and I'm a little anxious about that. I want to feel like, oh, oh, you know how I am and oh, I know how you are, even if it's not okay, and I think that sometimes it can feel a little fixy.
Speaker 3:I think people are like oh, you just okay, so oh, I have to respond to you. You're not okay, so you're overwhelmed, so you want me to. I'm going to do a bunch of stuff and I'm going to make you not overwhelmed. Like well, if you can make me not overwhelmed, fantastic. But I think a lot of us know that our partners can't do that. But I want you to know I think.
Speaker 2:Joy's just saying like Grant you okay, how you doing so some of the small acts that I realize are meaningful to you. Just a few.
Speaker 3:Wait, small acts that you know are meaningful to me, to you, to you, Erin, is how I greet you in the morning. Yeah, we've talked about that.
Speaker 2:That's right, Is important Also. Yeah, I want to feel like yeah, like I'm excited to see, like I'm excited to see you, like I'm excited to be in this life with you. Yeah, that kind of thing. I think, when I ask you to take a walk, if we're going to, you know, walk our dog or something, that communicates to you, oh, you just want to spend some time with me and that means something like and I know that these little things really matter. I know not doing them matters a lot. I know doing them also matters a lot, and these are those things that give that feeling of connection just in our you know, if we're just using ourselves, for example.
Speaker 3:Do you have small things that you know for you Do?
Speaker 2:you have small things that you know for you. Yeah, I think, honestly, like one of the things is you know, I'm sometimes in the office down here in a meeting or something, and when you bring, like when you bring me a cup of coffee, I'm like, oh, she knows me, she gets me, you know, like it means a lot, things like that. And so I think what you have to do is do what Aaron just did, like, do you know, do you know what communicates to you? That? The idea that I want to be connected, that I want to be someone that is close with you and knows you and gives you that feeling of connection. And so I would say, like, think about it and then, on your date night, talk about it.
Speaker 3:That's right, I like. Oh, so we still. You still get your date night, but now you know what to do with it.
Speaker 2:Date nights aren't bad who doesn't like a date night.
Speaker 2:but you do some of this thinking and some of this work before about that deeper level of what communicates connectivity, and so some other questions that you could ask yourself. What communicates physical closeness to me? Is it holding hands? Is it a hug? Is it, you know, rubbing my back? Is it you know what? What communicates that you physically want to be close. That feels good for you?
Speaker 2:Another question what communicates emotional responsiveness to me? So how do you get the sense that I'm hearing what you're feeling and what you're saying and I'm getting it? And I think you know Aaron and I have talked about this differently, like if she were to share something with me, I think how I could communicate. I'm getting it is that I would ask questions, that I would be curious about it. I think if I was trying to communicate something with Aaron, what would communicate? She gets me, she just lets me share it, and that there isn't a bunch of follow up. But maybe you know down the road but in the initial sharing of it that she's just listening. Um, like, you need to know those differences so that you know how to communicate. I want to be connected to you.
Speaker 3:I also have to tell I say it out loud Like I I would really like to hear more, but I think that this was like this was it Like?
Speaker 1:this was this was sharing, this was me listening.
Speaker 3:Because that doesn't feel natural to me, just like if you say nothing. I'm like Steven, I need help finding more. I don't have more to say, but I know there's more to say and I want, but like, oh, you're looking for more.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:I need something. Ask me something. I need help engaging myself on this. Can we can let ourselves believe the worst about one another when we don't have to?
Speaker 2:well, joy and grant were right. They joy was believing that grant didn't want to be close and grant was believing that joy was saying like it's not enough right, you don't care right, right and these like. So, knowing these things and being intentional about them, communicating about them, it gives you the language of connectivity, the language of feeling close.
Speaker 3:The other thing that I do, sometimes because Stephen's not a particularly. It's funny in some ways Stephen is very verbose, he loves to tell a good long story, but in other ways he doesn't say much at all. It just sort of depends. And maybe I'm the same. I don't honestly know that about myself, but sometimes when steven like brings me my coffee he brings me coffee every single morning I'm like because you love me, because I forget that. That is why steven does that for me. And he's like, yes, aaron, because I love you. You're smiling because you're happy to see me like narrating, and I hear how annoying that can sound, um, but even and you don't have to be annoying like that about it but but somehow to say out loud what is happening, because it's too easy to miss right the intention and the the hoped for impact in this yes I was.
Speaker 3:I'm bringing you this because I thought maybe you were hungry. Oh, I'm not hungry. Okay, that's okay. I I just wanted you to know I'm still glad you thought about me. Whatever, either, either way to to bring that internal world external, I'm doing this because I care, I want you to know I'm here and I was thinking if you, if you have something to say, I want to hear it.
Speaker 2:And I think what is, uh, hopefully nice about this is this isn't about adding a bunch of extra stuff to your life. This is about identifying like things in your relationship already that y'all do. That helps you feel physically close, that helps you feel like your partner is being emotionally responsive to you and giving you a language to identify it, to note it, to name it, to call it out, to see it, so that those little things stack up, so that you have this feeling of being connected, so that when you go on your date night you have a great time. And that's the whole idea.
Speaker 3:The other thing I love, so it's not only not adding stuff. Sometimes you can take things away. There was a season of our marriage, too, where Stephen used to bring me flowers. I had nannied for a family when I was in college and the dad brought home flowers every Tuesday or someday and I thought it was so sweet and I remember telling you that story and then you started to do it and I remember being like oh, this actually just makes me really anxious because this is expensive. Like I get why you're doing it, but I don't actually like that anymore. It was really sweet, but like, oh, we got it, stop that. I think sometimes we do things for our partners that aren't landing, and it's okay to say that too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you don't have to take that as a like, oh, like. Okay, I'm so sorry, it's just like, oh, that used to land or that didn't land, what does? Because that's what I care about.
Speaker 3:That's right, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2:And so you know what might this look like for Joy and Grant to kind of reset and think about this differently.
Speaker 1:Let's do it.
Speaker 2:Let's give it a shot. So I'll be Grant, if you can be.
Speaker 3:Joy, I'll be Joy.
Speaker 2:Great Grant. Hey, joy Earlier, that conversation did not go the way I wanted. I do really care about feeling connected. I think I was feeling a little blamed or even helpless, because I don't know what more we can do.
Speaker 3:Joy, I get that. I know you care. I'm frustrated. It feels so hard to connect these days.
Speaker 2:Grant. Well, I love the date nights, but maybe there are some things that we can do each day that can help. I don't know what they are, but I'd like to try.
Speaker 3:Joyce says I would too. You know what I just heard this great podcast from Aaron and Steven that I know could help us. Let's listen tonight and then we can talk about it on our date night.
Speaker 2:That sounds great. Yes, that's a little bit of a shameless plug for you to listen to the podcast, but I think that one of the things, or at least the point we're trying to put forward to you, is that you and your partner, if you're not feeling connected, there are specific things that you can do that are purposeful and that are intentional, that can help you both build that feeling of connection so that when you do things like date night, you really can enjoy them and feel close. Today's show was produced by aaron and stephen mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And and, as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents. And remember working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.