Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
Are You a Couple That Never Fights? Why That’s A Problem
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“We never fight” sounds peaceful, but is it actually connection—or quiet disconnection in disguise? We open up about a small argument over wedding dishes that revealed a much bigger truth: real intimacy requires honest engagement, not appeasing or winning. When one of us began to withdraw and the other escalated, the moment turned on a single request—“engage me so I know I matter.” From there, we unpack how boundaries, attachment styles, and the window of tolerance shape what happens between two people under stress.
Across this conversation, we explore why conflict is necessary for a healthy relationship, especially for parents managing constant fatigue and decision overload. We trace how childhood lessons teach us to either retreat or pursue and how those moves show up as “never fighting” or constant protest. You’ll learn the difference between withdrawal and appeasing (and why both feel like abandonment), how to replace defensiveness with curiosity, and the simple structure we use to turn friction into understanding. We also dig into avoidant and preoccupied attachment patterns and why resentment fades when both partners feel heard—even if the final choice doesn’t go their way.
By the end, you’ll have a practical lens for navigating everyday disagreements—like picking dishes—that carry deeper meaning about value, respect, and belonging. If you’re ready to shift from the same old arguments into real connection, press play and practice the two-part commitment of engagement: share yourself clearly and listen like your partner matters. If this resonates, follow the show, leave a rating, and share this episode with someone who thinks “no fights” equals “we’re fine.” Your relationship deserves more than survival mode—subscribe and help us grow this community of connected couples.
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Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents. A show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Y'all parents. Our dad, Dr. Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, Ann Mitchell.
SPEAKER_02:Hello, and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr. Stephen Mitchell. I'm Erin Mitchell. And a phrase that feels like a red flag to me when I hear a couple say this in their relationship is we never fight. The moment I hear a couple say that, I go, ooh, uh-oh.
SPEAKER_01:I have a shocker. Um I have a slightly experience of that. I think one, it depends where the couple is in a relationship, and two, it depends on um the context of how individuals would describe a fight. I think conflict is healthy and normal. I think we need to be able to disagree. I think the way I experienced fighting growing up, I'm so glad people don't fight.
SPEAKER_02:Sure, sure, sure. We are we are not talking about any unhealthy.
SPEAKER_01:I know. I'm just saying. There's a reason I think people have a spectrum of experience with that comment.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_01:Um, but also I think like a new young couple, like, of course there's not conflict.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I don't know. We were a you know what? Today that we are, Aaron and Steven are the case example because we uh we're talking about when we were a new young couple and we had some conflict. But so anyway, so one of the reasons when I hear someone say, you know, we never fight, and I kind of go, Oh, I don't know about that. Have some questions.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I think that's a great point. Have some questions. I don't think it's a red flag. Maybe it's a yellow.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's red. I like I I like using red flags.
SPEAKER_01:You have a red, I'm gonna keep my yellow.
SPEAKER_02:You know, it creates drama here on the podcast.
SPEAKER_01:On the podcast, drama is amazing. In real life, drama is less amazing.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. So one of the reasons I actually have some questions when I hear this is because of a moment that Aaron and I had as a young married couple. I mean, like, I think we've been married two weeks. I think that's correct. So let me set the scene for you. Aaron and I, we um were living in Seattle, Washington, in a 900 square foot posted stamp of an apartment. It was magic. Magic. Overlooked. You could see the um pugit sound from our window. It was just it was actually splendid. Um, and we were putting up our um new dishes that we got uh for our wedding. Yes, that I didn't want. Yep, these are dishes that Aaron didn't want, but um they looked cool.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, you really liked them.
SPEAKER_02:I really liked them, and I will say that it was a mistake that we got these dishes because within the year they were all broken. Um, they actually what they didn't tell us is that they were not dishes meant to be used, they were just meant to be looked at because they were very fragile and frail.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And anyway, so we're putting up these dishes, and I do not remember what happened or why, but we got in a little bit of a disagreement.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, if it's any I I bet I was having snarkiness about like I didn't want these.
SPEAKER_02:We should have gotten the green ones, and you know, and I admit 17 years later, you were right. But in that moment, I did not want to admit that. And so we were having a disagreement. Let's just say it was about who selected the case. I bet you it was. I bet you it was. And the the energy in the room, the intensity in the room was rising. And I did what I generally do when intensity rises in a situation, is I began to get very quiet and I began to shut down and be I stopped saying things, I began got very uncomfortable. And like I remember I could see us. We're Aaron was standing in the kitchen, I was standing across the room. Remember, we didn't talk about this.
SPEAKER_01:I was just gonna say, kitchen is a very generous word.
SPEAKER_02:Probably like two steps away, you know, based on the size. It was a very small little and I remember just getting nervous, and I could almost feel like myself just sort of like fade backwards. And that's what began to happen for me.
SPEAKER_01:Always, right? Like, so the way you just described what was happening for you is not what I saw, which I so again, I'm not trying to say that your experience wasn't yours, but the way I'm going to.
SPEAKER_02:You're gonna tell me.
SPEAKER_01:I know, I just uh but no, it looked like um, and so to me, like I didn't notice you slinking away, didn't look like withdrawal. It looked like you just trying to say, like, uh, appeasing. To me, it looked like nodding and like make it go away. Just make like make this stop, make this like sure, yep, whatever you say, Aaron. Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yep, these are awful plates. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01:But just like to make me feel better. I felt like you were trying to make me feel better, and that is actually very activating for me.
SPEAKER_02:Correct, correct.
SPEAKER_01:So I bet I was standing up straighter. I bet that my face is doing what it's doing right now, which is like my eyes are bugging out. Like, don't, don't, don't patronize me. I'm not looking for that. I don't want that.
SPEAKER_02:Like Aaron is kind of rising a little bit in intensity. I'm kind of dropping in intensity.
SPEAKER_01:Again, this is window of tolerance stuff, what we're talking about. So, what you know, if you think about uh like a ruler, right? That's what everybody feels comfortable with, living on the ruler, and I'm rising above the ruler, and Steven is dropping below the ruler.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Both of us are outside of our window of tolerance.
SPEAKER_02:We ended up having the conversation where Aaron expressed, why are you in a sense um slinking away or trying to just appease me, not engaging me in what like we're talking about. And my feeling was just saying, like, well, it just feels uncomfortable, it feels scary. I don't like I don't want to fight, like I don't want to fight, like we don't need to fight, like like we don't need to have conflict in this way. And then Aaron said a very important phrase to me. I think I mean it really has shaped our relationship ever since. She said, I need for you to engage with me because when you do, I know that I matter. Listen to what she didn't say, I know that what I'm saying matters, or that you're gonna verify that I'm right, or she just said, I know that I matter if you're willing to not slink away, but engage me in what I'm trying to say, and what I'm trying to say is important for you to meet me there. Correct. And I have to be honest, that was a very revolutionary idea to me. You know, our whole thing is that conflict can move you into a place of connection. Well, that's the point, it should. I just can, it should. And that was the moment that Aaron taught me that that could be true. Because for me, I I had seen conflict in such a way with my parents that it did not create connection. And my thought was like, you just have to avoid that at all cost. Nothing good comes from conflict.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And and that is very understandable, knowing what I knew about your story, knowing what I knew about my story, sure. Because we did know those things. Uh you know, I I can see why my growing frustration, my getting bigger would be activating for you. I can see why that would have absolutely poked a bunch of your buttons. Um but that's not what I was wanting. Can we talk about this?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you're like, I'm not even like furious about this. I just want to talk to you about it, and and you won't even do that. And and that felt very disconnecting and very uh, this isn't a word I don't think, but non-relational. Your conflict matters. Right. In that actually, if you are in a partnered relationship, you disagreeing, you having conflict, and again, we're not talking about anything that is uh abusive or violent or anything like that. We're just talking about two human beings having two different perspectives and then diff having challenges talking about them, that kind of conflict, that this is very necessary for your relationship, and it is something that should not be avoided. And we'll be right back.
SPEAKER_01:Parenting can be exhausting, but your relationship doesn't have to stay stuck in conflict. And too tired to fight, we share our conflict to connection equation, a proven way to shift from the same old arguments into real connection, where you feel heard, resolve resentment, and repair after fights.
SPEAKER_02:It's available in print and audiobook. So even if you don't have time to sit down and read, you can still listen on the go. And for parents who want more hands-on help, we're opening just five coaching spots this month. These feel quickly, and every couple starts with a free 20-minute consultation. You'll find the link in the show notes.
SPEAKER_01:Too tired to fight because your relationship deserves more than survival mode.
SPEAKER_02:And now, back to the show.
SPEAKER_01:Well, what springs to mind for me here is this is almost always an issue of boundaries.
SPEAKER_02:Say more.
SPEAKER_01:Because uh people, so I I think for you, you were willing to have no boundary about the dishes. Like, fine, Aaron, if you need whatever you need.
SPEAKER_02:You needed those green dishes as opposed to these flaky red ones that we got.
SPEAKER_01:Walk back to that store right now and figure this out. Like, I don't need these, but you did want them. You had said you wanted something. Yeah. Um, and uh, you know, I had a lot of friends at the time who were like, You should be so glad Steven has so many opinions. And I have been glad every day of our marriage Steven has so many opinions. But I do too. And so we we just like we didn't agree and something had to be chosen. We chose yours. I'm sure I chose the mixer or something. I don't really know how it happened, but it doesn't matter. But and who knows why I was even bringing up whatever we were bringing up. I don't remember what the the situation was, but we both get to care.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:There does have to be a decision. It doesn't mean we're going to agree, but we both get to have a boundary boundary of this matters. I I do think that a lot of these things come from boundary issues from childhood specifically. So you saw that you weren't allowed to have boundaries. You really weren't allowed to have boundaries.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I mean, it got ugly if if you tried to want something in contrast. And wasn't punished for that. And with my parents, if they if one of them wanted something in contrast to the other when they just went at it. And that wasn't that was very explosive. Really, yeah, not scary. Not a fun thing at all. Yeah, very scary. And so it's just like, no, you just don't do that.
SPEAKER_01:You you just like and then I had a whole different world of what boundaries looked like in my family. There were some chaotic, there were some super diffuse. My mom used to say this thing, we worked on it, she resolved it, we resolved it together. But I'd rather be close than right. Oh, it was terrible. I hated it so much. I hated it still. I I like it's activating even just to say it. But there is a way to for closeness doesn't have to mean like, oh, no big deal, I just give in. But knowing what I know about my mom and her relationship with my dad, same is a similar, like this is not that important for it to get um really scary. So, but you and I aren't scary, right? We're allowed to have opinions that differ, and we are allowed to each have a boundary and maintain maintain it, and that doesn't have to mean a break.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And this is what's with the dishes, with the dishes, because they did um but very much and this is where I think you know couples run into a lot of difficulty is they they're like, but how can we both want something? How can we both need something? And if they don't match up, what do we do about that? Right. Like if your perspective is that the conflict is about trying to get what you want or get your way, then you are gonna have difficulty. But if you think about conflict as a way to build and strengthen your relationship and connect with your partner, I think you will have a different experience.
SPEAKER_01:And this is Wait, the only thing I would add to that, because you and I have such different perspectives on this, because I think I'm adding yet another layer to this. But attachment. So you are you are very aware of what you want and need in a moment. I have to think about conflict as this is a way for me to understand your world and experience, yes, but also as an opportunity to understand my own world, my own wants, my own fears in a situation. And express those. Express those. Right. Not just express, super glad we got read. That was a terrible idea, rather than like, I've got actually I felt a little bulldozed over or whatever.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so you're talking about a dynamic where you know, my experience was I I knew what I wanted and what I needed. I was just like, but don't ever say it. And I think what you're saying, Erin, is in your experience, you were you were so kind of attuned to what was happening outside of you because that was necessary.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, my attachment pattern says attune out. Right.
SPEAKER_02:That you didn't have no idea. You didn't really know what was happening for you. And so when conflict happens, it's just like, okay, what like well when conflict happens?
SPEAKER_01:I just describe you, I describe you, I describe you, I describe you. And I and at the end of it, I probably still don't feel resolved. I probably still keep bringing it up because I never got resolved because I never knew what I wanted. Yep, I never got to be seen even by myself.
SPEAKER_02:So so that's a good question. Like in what you've described is there's a more dismissive or avoidant um attachment, which kind of is more in line with me and my attachment patterns, and then a more preoccupied attachment pattern, which is more in line with what you're describing here. And so, in some ways, think about it for yourself. Like how you function in conflict, you probably can understand a little something about your attachment pattern. Uh, where do you fall? And then let's think about this. So, conflict is if we think about conflict as a means to connect with our partner rather than a means to get what I need or win or whatever it might be, I think it can really reshape what that interaction looks like.
SPEAKER_01:I still have to say it. If we think about conflict as a way to uh connect with ourselves and our partner, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
SPEAKER_02:And again, these are just our two different things.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, you are always going to over-emphasize that perspective because that is the perspective that most stands out for you in conflict. And the the perspective the more preoccupied or the anxiously attached have to focus on is I have to understand myself in this also because both of us are spending a lot of time focused on you.
SPEAKER_02:And so this is the to your point, this is one of the reasons why conflict matters is that we need to be able to express what we feel and what we want. This doesn't mean that we're always gonna get what we want or that everything we feel is always accurate in a in a sense. Correct. But it still is important to human experience to be able to express yourself. Yes. Think about it. No one wants to be silenced, right? When people have something to say and then they're silenced, like that feels oppressive.
SPEAKER_00:That feels um invalidating. Yes, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And and so just in your couple relationship, you both need to be able to express what you want, what you need, what you're feeling, what you're thinking. And that that is crucial. And so if you think about our conflict is actually necessary so that we can feel like humans. Okay. So we can know and be known. Yeah. It's like, okay, like, all right, then we need to do this. I think it changes the framework for for what conflict is. I think the second point is we need to be able to express ourselves to someone we trust and love and know that they will listen, that they will care, that they will try and understand, that they'll try to validate, and then take action for our benefit. So it's not just I need to be able to like uh they call this in psychology terms, I need to have this cathexis where I can just like dump dump dump stuff. But it's actually I need to be able to share who I am with someone that I trust.
SPEAKER_01:What I was going to add here is I think so often the parenting partners we talk to have some version of this where it feels like my partner, similar to what we had described in our that example, they go away. Like, or they'll just like brush it under the rug. They don't have any experiences. Or um, you know, I try to bring something up and they say, okay. Right. It's very accommodating. It doesn't always withdraw doesn't always look like um being quiet or silent.
SPEAKER_02:Withdraw can also look like you might get big to try to shut it down and like yeah, or just appeasing.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, sure, yes, whatever you need. That's also withdraw. You are not offering anything of yourself. And I think that isn't as recognized as a very hurtful, lonely place. And the other person's like, I'm giving you everything you want. Absolutely not. Right. What I really want isn't everything I want. What I want is engagement, connection. I want to know what you want. I actually want to make decisions as an us, not just, sure, yep, what I want. Great.
SPEAKER_02:And and I think and vice versa, like for for me, like it's really important for me to have you understand what you do want and to be able to communicate it because it's like, okay, I can share what's going on, but if if your response is kind of like, oh, you know, whatever, I don't know, or or like, I don't know, but then you're you get mad about something.
SPEAKER_01:The red dishes are fine, but I but then when we're putting away, I'm like, actually, I wish we'd gotten the crack. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Like that's what that's not helpful.
SPEAKER_01:And the thing that's not just unhelpful, it's not fair. Sure, sure. It's really damaging and hurtful.
SPEAKER_02:And and so I think the way that you build that trust and safety is is in how you listen to your partner when they are sharing these things, that you do listen, that you try and understand, that you have curiosity, that you don't lead with defensiveness, but you say, like, okay, help me understand, tell me more. I think that this is really important. And if there's some action steps and things you can do that would help your partner feel better, then that you try and do those things. But the only way you're going to know this is if you engage in the act of having some conflict and disagreements. And so you have to be able to share who you are and what's going on.
SPEAKER_01:I think, sorry, I have to say what you just said is if the act of if you I can't remember the exact instance you just said, but if you just engage. But then you said with some conflict. But I think, period, if we are engaging, of course we're going to have conflict. We are different people, entirely different stories, and not entirely different ones, values, needs, hopes, fears, desires, but different.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Even when they're similar, they're not the same. And that's not the that's not important. We don't need sameness. Right. We need engagement.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right. And I and I think that that's what that is at the crux of this. Because if you feel like your partner has engaged with you, you will have this experience of having disagreements, having differing opinions, differing wants, differing needs, and still coming out at the end saying, like, we're still to we're still together here. We're we're not we're not enemies, we're not in competition. It's not like I got to get my way, you got to get your way. Rather, we actually understand one another. Not yeah, you you know, you still have to make a decision. Do you get the red dishes or do you get the green ones? You know, we we got the we got the red ones. I can say I wish we'd gotten the green ones, but you know, like, okay, like the you do have to sometimes, you know, um make compromises and you do have to take action that might lean more towards one partner than the other. But but the idea is the process of disagreeing and having conflict is this deep process of engaging. And when both partners feel like they've been engaged with, then you know what? They can feel connected. And conflict is is much it's it's framed in a very different light.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's communication. That's what we're talking about. And what we're talking about is, and this is how you know like some like what are some of the indicators that you aren't maybe as as skilled as this if is if you'd like to be, is if there's resentment, if you aren't over that decision. Because we don't have to agree. I don't, we didn't get at this point, we don't have the red or the green dishes. That's right. Um, we don't. We have other very, even more boring dishes that are very practical for a family. But um it's not the point. Yeah, but the point is most often we don't carry resentment when we felt heard. We can agree on a compromise. It doesn't even have to feel like a compromise if we both really understand what the cost is mutually, what the hopes are mutually. Okay, well, I don't agree, but I feel like you get it for me. Great. And that's probably why I brought it back up because probably when we're in the store, I probably said nothing. Yeah. And I probably just was like, oh, he seems really into that. Fine. But then I wasn't okay with it. Right. I felt like, man, I didn't stand up for me. I didn't have a boundary, I didn't say what I wanted, so we could even make a choice. And so then I blamed you. That's not fair.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:That's a me conflict problem. So that's what has to be addressed.
SPEAKER_02:And so if you can come to conflict as a couple and you can say, my goal in this disagreement is to engage with my partner. And engaging meaning two things.
SPEAKER_01:Engage with myself and my partner.
SPEAKER_02:Right. I'm going to share, I'm going to think about and know what I want to say, and I'm going to say that. And then I'm going to listen to my partner in a way that shows curiosity and understanding and isn't about winning, isn't about getting to say my piece too, but is simply about trying to give them the experience of saying, what you're saying matters. And if we can listen and if we can express ourselves in those two ways, that is engagement, and that is conflict, and that is what leads to connection. Today's show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents. And remember, working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.