Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
When Stress Hijacks Love: Turning Conflict into Connection for Parents
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When stress shows up in a relationship, it rarely says its name. We dive into the real culprit—nervous system activation—and show how it secretly drives the shutdown–pursuit loop that so many parents know too well.
Through the story of Leah and Justine, two working parents navigating new routines and old expectations, we break down the two common stress strategies: going internal to feel safe or going external to find safety. You’ll hear how those protective moves collide—why silence can feel like abandonment, why pressing for resolution can feel like attack—and how caregiving history informs these patterns. Most importantly, we share a usable plan: opposite action. If you tend to shut down, reach outward and name your inner state. If you tend to pursue, pause and turn inward before you speak. These small, honest moves lower threat, reduce uncertainty, and open the door to empathy and repair.
The takeaway isn’t to eliminate stress; it’s to stop letting stress run the conversation. Change the pattern and you change the relationship—one moment of choice at a time.
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Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents. A show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Y'all parents. Our dad, Dr. Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, Anne Mitchell.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, and thank you for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr. Stephen Mitchell.
SPEAKER_02:I'm Aaron Mitchell.
SPEAKER_01:You know, there's this um song by a group called The Surfaces. They got kind of got this cool, beachy California vibe. And one of their songs, they have a lyric that says, Feeling blessed, never stressed. And you know, in our family, we like to sing, or maybe it's just between me and you, yeah, not our kids, but we like to feel sing the song Feeling Stressed and Never Blessed. Because sometimes that is how the world and life feels. It just feels very stressful.
SPEAKER_02:I think that this feels like a particularly acute time of stress for many uh people. And this feels like this is an opportunity for stresses to feel stacked up. Um, it feels like it's happening from all angles and really big in really micro ways. Um, and so it does feel like stress is winning a lot of people's days.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. One of the fundamental and foundational things that we talk to couples about is stress management. Now it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily always feel like that. It doesn't always feel that direct. But when it comes down to it, the biggest thing we do is discuss with partners how they're dealing with their individual stress and how they are doing that, how that is um maybe mucking up the communication that they're having with their partner.
SPEAKER_02:I think that it's helpful in this moment maybe to define stress a little bit because I think how you were just describing, I think a lot of couples don't come to us and say, we are just so stressed. Sure. Um, but I think what we're saying is that stress is just anything that activates a nervous system. So feeling activated or feeling like you're activating me, our life isn't actually that stressful. We have so much blessing or blessed moments in a day.
SPEAKER_00:Sure.
SPEAKER_02:But still, yeah, um, and blessing's a funny word to be using in this moment, but it's just the song, you know, they say um bless in stress. But still, um, a lot of people have some baggage. I think probably you, chief among them, with some more religious words. But uh my point is it doesn't have to be that you just feel like stress is dominating your day, but it can feel like is your nervous system is activated by your partner's nervous system or because of work stress really getting in the way.
SPEAKER_01:Or world events or whatever, like yes, many things big and small can activate that nervous system and cause that shift to happen. So that that is what we're talking about by um stress. Um, so let's let's take a let's take a look at Justine and Leah. Um they're gonna be our example uh of what this might look like and then um how we um think that couples can begin to process and approach their stress in a different way that will help mitigate their um communication difficulties. Maybe not mitigate the stress, but mitigate the the difficulties that they have in communication. So um Justine and Leah have been together for 13 years and they have two kids. Uh they both work full-time, and this past year was the first year that both of their kids were in school. And this transition has been helpful in many ways because both the kids are at the same school and it's made Leah's workday a bit more predictable. She works from home, so she was primarily the parent at home, navigating, caring for their youngest child, while Justine worked outside of the home. The transition has also created some new stresses. Leah and Justine find themselves arguing about Justine's assumption that now that their youngest is in school, Leah can be responsible for more household responsibilities during the day. The conversation goes kind of like this. Leah. Justine, just because I'm at home without one of the kids, I don't have free time to clean, do laundry, and meal prep. I have a job. I have to work just like you do while I'm at work. I don't expect you to be running errands during the day because you're out of the house. Justine. Leah, that's a little overdramatic, don't you think? I'm not saying you need to not work, but if I was at home, I could work and throw in a load of laundry. It's not that hard. Now, this is where the interaction gets interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Really, I thought it was interesting already. Because I honestly wait, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is one of those moments where I feel anxious. I feel it in my body like just say it's not that hard. Yeah. Uh, but I'm feeling it. I'm wondering like what people are feeling. Just a moment to check in. Like, whoa.
SPEAKER_01:Sure, sure. Notice yourself. And so, like after the fight, it this is where Leah and Justine begin to get into those nervous system places that can uh create some communication difficulty because they do two completely different things. Neither of them like to fight, feels uncomfortable, and the tension that is present is something that makes them both feel stressed, just like you're saying. You're you're feeling uncomfortable, which is a which what we would say is, well, that's a nervous system thing, and that's stress when you're feeling that discomfort. So to handle the stress, Justine just goes quiet. She walks away from the conversation, and in her mind, she says, All right, fine. I just won't bring that up again. And she goes on with her day. Leah starts going over the conversation in her head. She plays out what she wishes she had said, but she also feels really nervous that Justine is angry. This is intensified by the fact that Justine has gone silent and dropped the subject altogether. Leah doesn't know how to read this. Is Justine mad? Is she over it? Are they going to resolve the conflict or not? Leah doesn't like this uncertainty, so she says to Justine, So that's it? You're just done? We aren't going to talk about this anymore? Justine doesn't respond. She just thinks, Oh, Leah seems really mad. I just want this to be over. Then Justine says, You know what, Leah? I shouldn't have even brought it up. Forget it. Forget I said anything. You were right. Leah feels even more frustrated by Justine's response. She knows she's just placating her, so she still doesn't know how Justine feels, and in turn, she doesn't know if they're okay or not. And we'll be right back. Ever felt like you just don't have the energy to argue with your partner anymore? That's exactly why we wrote Too Tired to Fight. Inside, we share our conflict to connection equation, a simple framework that helps couples move from the same old arguments into connection where you can actually feel heard, validated, and able to repair after fights. And if you don't have time to sit down and read, we recorded an audiobook too, so you can listen on the go. You'll find Too Tired to Fight anywhere books are sold or at Couples Counseling for Parents.com. And if you want us to walk you through these tools personally, we open just five new coaching spots each month. Each starts with a free 20-minute consultation. You'll find the link for the book and the free consult in the show notes. Too tired to fight for parents ready to fight less and connect more. And now back to the show. There's a lot going on there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But I wonder if this maybe feels a little familiar to how you and your partner might have conflict.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. I I think that uh this is a very good case study.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you very much. You're welcome.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I I think you really really hit on some very important things that both people think they're doing great at for their partner, or maybe for themselves too, but I think they think they're doing it for their partner that aren't actually helpful.
SPEAKER_01:I think what is going on here is there's generally two common strategies that people have for coping with stress. Um trying to get their nervous system again to come down, not be elevated. And so um one of those strategies is someone can go internal, which I and you you said this a couple of weeks ago, Aaron. I think it was on the podcast or maybe it's in a conversation, can't really remember. But I think a great way of describing what going internal means is that that partner simply becomes more attuned to themselves. And they do that, they're motivated to do that because to attune to themselves helps them feel more safe and balanced. And they they might have a um way of thinking that says, you know what, I have to check in on myself because no one else will. Correct. Now that is a historic belief. We'll we'll get to that. But maybe, you know, that's kind of what going internal might look like. So what going external might look like is that an individual becomes more attuned to others again to feel safe. And so something that they might be thinking is I have to check in on others to make sure I'm okay, so that because I, in a sense, they're judging, like, I don't really really know what I'm gonna get from someone. So I have to like kind of verify like, are they okay? Is that all right? Because if they're okay, then that means that there's not gonna be any discomfort or any threat or danger to me.
SPEAKER_02:Right, then I'm okay.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Again, these are historic things that are oftentimes related to caregiving experiences, but that this is two uh nervous system reactions that take place in stress. We alluded to uh this idea that these are historic beliefs, these different sentences or phrases that the internal or the external um partner might be having. Uh, and I think that, you know, for yourself, who might you be? Are you more internal? Are you more external when it comes to stress? And I think one of the ways to help you assess that is for you to think a little bit about what was your experience of your caregivers, of your parents, or whoever it was that in a sense brought you up or raised you up. And I think that generally individuals who have more of an internal tendency have had a caregiving experience where they have felt um neglected or just not even like paid attention to uh by their caregiver, maybe dismissed, or they've had a caregiver who has been very intrusive, someone who's been very involved. Uh, you might call this an enmeshed kind of boundary situation. And what that is is so if an individual feels like someone's not really paying attention to them, or if someone feels like someone is paying too much attention to them, they oftentimes can go inside internal to find their own self and own space.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Make sense? Any thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_02:Or yeah, I think personally, and so I know, I mean, the I mean, that's what the research says. I think it can be very confusing, though. I find it very confusing to have it explained with like what your caregiving experience might have been like, because I think a lot of people have some neglected or intrusive experiences and may not have reacted in that way, which is again why choice feels like such an important word to me. I remember when I was in graduate school trying to figure out like my own attachment and my, you know, this if I am more internal or more external. And I just felt like it was this spiral of confusion. Right. And I think a lot of people have that experience. We're like, well, I I mean, I did have some of that. Oh, well, but oh, but I oh, I just feel like this can be, this can feel like one of those things where like the more you know, the more you don't. Right, the more confused you become. So yes, I mean, I I have nothing to expound on any of that except to say this can be confusing. Right. Um, and um you talk about shameless pitches all the time. Where I said this was in our course on attachment, which is going to be released soon. If you want to make sure that you're a part of C receiving that, email us, reach out something. But um, that's where we were talking about this. And we go, we can go into so much more depth there. Um But I think that this can be I think it can be confusing.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it most certainly can be confusing. And again, um it's it's not to um this is just to give you categories or potential ways of thinking of things. Um it's not necessarily to name you and say this is the way it is, you have to decide that yourself. Um so I know.
SPEAKER_02:I think it is helpful, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So if we think about so if we think about may the external partner, what might their caregiving experience have been like? Usually there's this feeling of unpredictability. So uh they had a caregiver where it was like, you know, they were great some days, they weren't so great other days. I never really knew what I was gonna get. And again, that kind of tends towards that idea of being very aware, attuned of what's happening outside externally, because it's like, you know what? Like, who are we getting today? What are you know, what what what what's happening today? And and I think that again, to your point, you can have had an unpredictable caregiver and be more internal as opposed to external. You you just have to think about it for yourself. But these are just some factors that might be influencing these things. So, what kind of feels more like where you go in stress? There's nothing good or bad, right or wrong about these strategies. Uh, these are things that we uh all do to manage stress. That's fine. But we do want to think about how is it impacting our communication with our partner? Because there might be, there might be a uh a more helpful way uh to communicate with one another uh rather than two stressed people trying to have stressed communication.
SPEAKER_02:Well, if we so Justine and Leah here, right? So Justine tends to be more internal.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Leah tends to be more external.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:And in this particular moment, their strategies aren't helpful. They're actually further activating each to the other. Yes. So while they may have been helpful for them, and you say they're not good, bad, right or wrong, that's true, of course. No one again, this is why choice matters, because it can feel like Justine to the Leah's, to the Aaron's in the world. It can feel like Justine is choosing to just like, okay, you're just choosing to turn this off. Justine's nervous system is reacting to, oh no, I've upset Leah, shut down. Which I'm scared.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, if you hear that internal dialogue, they're both really worried about what's happening. Justine might appear like she doesn't care, but that internal messaging is like, oh no, this is uncomfortable. Maybe I did something wrong. I just need it to go away.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, this doesn't matter that much. Shut off.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And Leah is can it can look like Leah's really just focused on like what Justine has done and why Justine might be wrong, you know, why can't you talk about this? But really, Leah is trying to understand what Justine's response is for herself because it feels really uncomfortable. She's trying to gauge, like, like, where where am I? Is Justine really mad at me? Is she done with it? Like, I don't know how to think about myself, even. I don't know how to judge if we're okay.
SPEAKER_02:And I can't predict if we are going to be okay. And I think a lot of times the Just Steens and the Stevens look at the Aaron's and the Leah in this and are like, let it go.
SPEAKER_00:Sure.
SPEAKER_02:Like resolve, like be okay. Like just shut it off. Like that's what we're doing. Just don't make such a big deal. Stop making such a big deal. Like, why do we have to talk about this endlessly? Like, I don't want to talk about this endlessly. I want repair and resolution. And that doesn't come to me with you saying, it's fine, no big deal. I shouldn't have brought it up.
SPEAKER_01:That doesn't feel better. That's the misnomer. For the like, this is a big deal to both Justine and Leah. They're just demonstrating it's a big deal in a different way. Right. And and I think that so, so like, what do you do? I I do think like there's a simple little um strategy here. And in the internal Justine's. Just Stevens, I think what they can do is turn their attunement and attention outward, and the Leah's, the external individuals, can turn their attunement and attention inward. So you know, kind of what is that what does that look like? So I'll I'll give you an example here for Justine. So Justine has some uncomfortable emotions that she's feeling and not expressing to Leah. And what her turning her attention outward or her attunement outward would look like would be her saying to Leah, like, whoa, I am really feeling uncomfortable. You know, I don't like to fight. I I really just want this all to go away. That's what's happening for me. And then this would be because she and Leah have talked about this, you know, maybe they've sat down and chatted with us, or they've read the book, or they've taken the course, whatever it is. And then she'd be able to say, and I know that when I do that, that makes you really uncertain and really uncomfortable too. I don't want that to happen. That would be Justine turning her attunement outward.
SPEAKER_02:Because I think what the Justines don't realize is Justine's trying to shut it down. Justine really does want this to just go away. She is sorry she brought it up. Oh, not that big of a deal. I can turn on the laundry, no problem.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But for her to do that feels to Leah like she's abandoning her. Like she's totally left her in this like very uncomfortable place. And so Justine's just like, forget it. I can. Let's just forget it.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And and that is the most hurtful thing to the Leah. Right. I don't want to forget it. I want to repair it. Say we can be okay even though we disagree.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. And so so for Leah, like kind of that idea of turning the attunement inward, it would be exactly what you're talking about. Leah recognizing, like, oh my goodness, this is one of those scenarios where I feel really uncertain. I feel a lot of discomfort because I can't read Justine. And when I can't read Justine, that leaves me feeling alone, abandoned, left to myself, and I don't like that feeling.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, back to that unpredictable place that I partnered with you, so I didn't have to feel anymore.
SPEAKER_01:And then what she can do is she can communicate that to Justine. In contrast to probably what Justine is hearing is Justine, you never should have said what you said. Why do you do like where Leah's focus when she was trying to communicate this to Justine was more Justine-centric.
SPEAKER_02:Totally.
SPEAKER_01:This is Leah being Leah-centric and communicating what is happening for her. Now, if you notice why this is challenging is because both partners have to be vulnerable with one another. Their vulnerability is geared a little differently in terms of Justine's vulnerability is yes, communicating something about herself, but reaching out to Leah to communicate that. Leah's vulnerability is looking inward and communicating what's happening for her vulnerability to Justine.
SPEAKER_02:And that's this is this principle you talk about a lot, opposite action. Of course, their opposite action is going to look different. Their protective action looks different. So yes, yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and so yes, this is challenging, but this is the moment for Leah and Justine to take the risk to choose rather than react, to choose a different strategy, which is a strategy of attuning externally if you're the in internal, and uh attuning inward if you're the external. And so, yes, this requires safety, trust, empathy, and compassion towards one another as you learn this because you're not gonna do it you know perfectly the first time. But this is the in a sense, this is the trick, and and I I I cannot express to you enough. This is at the most basic level what we end up talking to couples about again and again and again, and much of it is helping them, first of all, attune to what, like, oh, there's something going on here. I'm stuck in that nervous system, I'm going internal, I'm going external. Okay. And then how can they find the language to communicate these very things differently? That's it. So solution, problem solved, right?
SPEAKER_02:Honestly, yes, right. Um, but it is complicated. Simple things are often not easy things, and this is one of those things because it matters a lot. Because what's at stake here is do you love me? Will you ever see me? Right.
SPEAKER_01:Can I trust that you love me? Can I trust that you'll ever see me?
SPEAKER_02:Do I get to be a priority in this relationship?
SPEAKER_01:Can I mutually can I risk the potential of this not going well, of getting hurt in the same ways that I've been hurt before? That's why I have this great strategy because it helps me not get hurt.
SPEAKER_02:But hurt less, or at least prepare for my hurt and predict it.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that that is the beautiful struggle of a relationship with another human being, is that you are constantly practicing and verifying and supporting and hopefully giving your partner this experience of you can trust me. I'm not perfect. I know I don't, you know, I make mistakes, but ultimately you can keep risking and keep reaching out, and I can keep risking and keep reaching out to you. And what we find is yes, I can trust you. Yes, you love me, yes, you see me.
SPEAKER_02:Or at least you want to. I think so often that's that's what it turns into our heads like okay, you didn't you didn't see me. You don't want to. Yeah, you don't want to know me, you don't want to see me, you aren't you aren't willing to do the work to try to see me.
SPEAKER_01:Walking away from this, here's some questions that you and your partner, um, after you've listened to the podcast and processed it, you and your partner can ask yourself for the coming week. Um, and and again, this is primarily to help you and your partner begin to think in these terms, uh to begin to think in terms of like, you know what, like our communication issue, our conflict here, rather than thinking of it in terms of like personally, you're just a terrible person who doesn't get me and doesn't love me and doesn't want to know me, because you know, hey, sometimes we think that. Rather than thinking in those terms, thinking in terms of like, you know what, are we caught up in those old strategies that maybe are not helpful for us? How can we get out of that? So, this is here's some questions. In stress, are you more internal or externally attuned? And you know what? Ask yourself that question and then ask your partner that question and see what they have to say. Ask your partner if they think they are, or ask your partner how they think you are how they see how they see you, what they how they experience you. Yes. Um, one of the ways you might be able to get at your answer to this is what kind of caregiving experience did you have? Uh, did you have one that trended towards a more neglectful, disinterested, intrusive experience, or one that trended more towards an unpredictable experience? Then what are the factors that help you and your partner be vulnerable? Like what when are the moments when you can talk to one another like Justine and Leah were able to talk to each other? Is that when you are sitting by each other? Is that when you're holding hands? Is that when you're on a walk? Is that when you're um, you know, uh the kids are asleep and it's just the two of you right before you go to sleep, you know, or is it early in the morning? Like, what are the things that help you express vulnerability with your partner?
SPEAKER_02:And you have to think about that for the record, they probably won't be the same time. So you and I don't connect in the same ways or at the same moments, and I'm usually caught off guard by my vulnerability.
SPEAKER_01:Whoa, what honestly?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I feel like, and this has been consistent in our 17 and a half years of marriage, like, oh, you waited until I am exhausted. Um but and and that's not on purpose.
SPEAKER_01:That's just like um I don't know, that's just when it happens.
SPEAKER_02:That is one, maybe just when it happens, or two, if I'm being honest, maybe I finally stopped talking long enough for you to have a little space to share. Um, but I I do think it doesn't have to be at the same time. Y'all can take turns.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when are y'all prone to be more vulnerable? Uh, and then the final question this week, notice how you respond to stressful moments. Call it out. Say something like, you know what, I notice I'm going internal here, or I think I'm being external here. This by itself can help shift a conversation because, in a sense, you're actually removing uncertainty for you and your you're you're saying, this is what's at, you know what? I'm going a little internal. Hey, I'm feeling really externally focused. And that helps you recognize like your part, you're describing yourself. You're taking accountability and responsible for yourself, you're not passing it off onto your partner. And then in those moments, you can say, like, okay, well, what do we want to do about it? And immediately you're collaborating, immediately you're a team. So at the very least, just try to pay attention. Call out what you see in terms of how are you trying to cope with your stress this week. I guarantee you, you're gonna have a lot of opportunity because it just seems like the stress keeps coming. Um, but this thinking about you and your partner's communication in these terms really, again, I can't say, is one of the biggest keys to you and your partner being able to move from places of disconnection and conflict to places of connection. Today's show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents. And remember, working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.