Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
Why Quid Pro Quo Love Fails and What Builds Trust Instead
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We use our boys’ everyday squabbles as a mirror for adult dynamics: both sides telling true events, but interpreting the events completely different. From there, we lay out three lessons that change the tone of a relationship. First, love isn’t a contract (quid pro quo); connection can’t be leveraged without corroding trust. Second, assume your partner’s best and verify the worst with clear questions instead of silent verdicts. Third, practice empathy with accountability—context matters, and so do boundaries.
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Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents. A show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Y'all parents. Our dad, Dr. Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, Ann Mitchell.
SPEAKER_02:Hello, and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr. Stephen Mitchell.
SPEAKER_03:I'm Aaron Mitchell.
SPEAKER_02:And I think this is worth sharing because right before we started recording, Aaron and I were reminiscing about one of the greatest family moments we have ever had. Let me paint the scene for you. We took a road trip from Denver. We decided to drive to Seattle because we were going to be there for an extended period of time and do some camping. And so we needed our car so we could bring our gear and stuff. And it was late at night, and we were on this desolate two-lane highway in Utah. And to you know make it through the night, Aaron and I decided to have our own little carpool karaoke session.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Where we have to choose all of our throwback songs.
SPEAKER_02:And we were talking we're talking country, we're talking pop, even like what would it be like theatrical songs, you know? Like I don't know. Broadway. Yeah, but like Broadway songs. And we were we were playing it on you know the radio through the Bluetooth thing. And speakers, I think the words you were going for. It was one of the greatest performances of all time. We we were on pitch, we were on key, I remembered 10% of the words you were.
SPEAKER_03:Which is a which is that's good for you.
SPEAKER_02:Most of them, but we were just killing it, crushing it, and our kids hated to love it. Yeah, they they were embarrassed, but into it they loved it.
SPEAKER_03:Well, they they thought it was funny.
SPEAKER_02:They hated that they thought it was funny, but they did think we were and it was just an epic moment, so much so that we Aaron and I do try and replicate this moment pretty often. Yeah, on you know, driving to soccer or also on longer road trips. But we were just thinking about that moment. It actually was like just such a like it was like it was like a special moment.
SPEAKER_03:It was special, and by moment you mean like hour and a half.
SPEAKER_02:It was a long time. It was a long time. Magic. But I just thinking about like, do you have moments like that in your like family life? Like where it's just like this moment where you're sitting there and you're like, this is so silly, this is so, you know, wild, this is so random, but this feels so special.
SPEAKER_03:I think the the phrase that came to mind, which is not like a better or good phrase, but it's like what it felt like in my gut, like this is the stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Like this is this is what I've I've wanted my whole life. Yeah, like these ridiculous magical. And it had nothing to do, like we had spent about zero dollars. It wasn't like we were, you know, like on the thrill of a very expensive vacation or something. Um we were like a desolate Utah Road, which is like driving through Mars.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it's a little creepy. So I think maybe part of why we were singing too is just to get through it, yeah, help our fear not be so anyway.
SPEAKER_03:But like that's the stuff.
SPEAKER_02:That is the stuff. That is the stuff. And and like, what's what's been the stuff um that you've experienced? Because um, yeah, it was really special. It it also, like, I I guess one of the reasons we're thinking about that is today on the show, we're gonna use our boys as the case example. Our children, our children, yeah. Um who happen to be boys, um, as our case example. And so, you know, maybe that's why it's on the mind. But we want to focus on this idea that oftentimes we hear couples not say this uh as directly and straight up as I'm about to say it, but it's it's in essence the same thing.
SPEAKER_04:Agreed.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and it's kind of this idea of I'll listen to you and take responsibility if you listen to me and take responsibility first. And the reason my boys came to mind, or our children came to mind, is because you know what? This sounds a lot like conversations we have with our kids. And so I want to paint the paint a scene for you. Just paint a scene. This could happen, well, probably happen later on today. Um, but this happens all the time with our kids. One of our boys pushes the other, and then the other one gets mad, then someone starts to cry, and then there's this whole thing that ensues after that. Um, Aaron and I, you know, hear this has happened, and then we start trying to have this uh kind of conversation with them. Uh we try to have uh, you know, one of the boys will say, Well, they were bossing me around. And the other one says, I was not trying to boss you around, I asked you three times to help, and you wouldn't listen. Then the other one says, You didn't ask me three times, you asked twice, and I was coming to help, and then you shoved me. Then this is followed up with, I shoved you because when you walked by me, you purposely bumped into me and hit me in the face. Okay. So when we finally get through this kind of back and forth, Aaron and I have found that both kids are telling the truth. All the events they both have described happened. But how they interpreted them was a bit off, and the reactions to one another most certainly did not move the needle towards understanding and de-escalation. So we end up saying things like, Can you see how your brother might have felt bossed around by you asking him so many times? Or is it possible that you did walk by your brother and bump into them because you were mad? Or might there be a world where yes, you got hit in the face, but no, your brother is not an evil villain who is out to get you and hurt you and hit you in the face by accident? You get the picture, right? And then we generally end this conversation with some version of these statements. Boys, y'all love each other. Do you honestly think your brother wants to hurt you and did any of these things to make you suffer specifically? No, that's not what you believe. Give each other the benefit of the doubt. Don't think, don't do things you know will get them riled up. And even if your brother hurts you, that does not give you a pass to come back and hurt them. And we have this conversation all the time with our boys, again and again. And why do we have to have it again and again? Is it because they're awful kids who don't want to listen and refuse to learn and just want to do whatever they want no matter who pays the price? No, it's because these are some of the hardest lessons to learn about human relationships. And you know who else we have this same conversation with again and again and again? It is the adult couples that we work with.
SPEAKER_03:Including ourselves.
SPEAKER_02:Including ourselves.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So what I was going to say is one, I'm smiling through that entire example because it it's not exactly how it goes, but it's not really far from it. You've skipped a lot of details, thankfully. Um but I think what happens is hurt informs interpretation. It it is how we interpret it. It becomes the filter, it becomes the lens. Because when our kids are like in like you can we can see it. It happens so clearly. They're in the backyard, we have a soccer goal up there, all three of them play soccer, they love it, and they can play soccer together for hours. I mean, do you think that's fair? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I thought you gave a face. Yes, hours. Like they just will play. And there's a lot of injuries that happen back there. And when they are like in the in the zone, when they're what did I say? When they're in the their version of the stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the Utah zone. They're in their shout out to Utah.
SPEAKER_03:They interpret it with generosity. Yeah. But you didn't mean to hurt me. We were just playing. That that didn't, you know, like of course that hurt. Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. That's not what I meant. And they believe it. It it moves so quickly through the sort of the whole process. But when they come in, when everybody's a little bit stressed, when you know it's like after dinner, they're hungry.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. They're tired.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, any number, that's right, exactly. Interpretation starts to get foggier. People get shorter tempers, people get a little bit more primed to say, like, no, like, no, that was this. Um, and I think that that's also true of the couples.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it it is 100% true of couples. And I think, I think kind of the idea of why we use our kids in this example is because it's so clear, right? It's so clear. It's it's so clear that having this mentality of, well, I'll do this if you do that, it's so clear how ineffective and unhelpful that type of mentality in perspective is. It doesn't, it doesn't work.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. And I think why else I think it's very helpful is it's so clearly informed by hurt feelings.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Um, I like so clearly informed. Like, but they pushed me because they didn't want me around, or they pushed me because I didn't do it fast enough.
SPEAKER_02:Or I'm smaller and they're trying to boss me around and I don't want to be a few more. Of course, I'm gonna get big. Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_03:I just think like the the hurt, the pain, that that misinterpretation is so clearly based on a self-protective.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And and so what we do as parents is we try to say, hey, hey, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's let's step back, let's look at the bigger picture. This isn't the way to communicate what you want to communicate. Yes, what you experience, what you're feeling is really important. Let's try and understand that. And then let's try and still connect in the midst of that, right? We're ever everyone tries to do that as a parent. And yet, when we get into a couple relationship, for some reason we say, Oh, we don't need to do that anymore. Especially when what we're trying to demonstrate to our kids is what how we think that they should kind of interact.
SPEAKER_03:What do you think is the reason we say we don't need to do that anymore? I think I I have my belief about why that is, but I assume it's different from yours.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean, I think like on a really kind of nerdy, deep, you know, kind of psychological level, I think it's better.
SPEAKER_03:Do you have a different level, Steven? Take us there. Yeah. That's I mean that. Sure.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I think most certainly it is because um there's a model of therapy called emotionally focused uh couples therapy. And one of the basic premises of um that model of therapy, and one of the basic premises of like things like interpersonal neurobiology and how it impacts relationships, is simply this. We experience attachment wounds that we experienced earlier in life on repeat in our relationships, in our romantic relationships. And when we experience those same wounds, we have, if they haven't been understood, worked through, grasped, whatever it might be, we will react and respond to them in the exact same way that we did earlier in life to try and make the make it not hurt, to try and ignore that it's there, to whatever it is to get through that wound. And so in adult relationships, we just we do that again and again and again if we haven't tried to work through it, understand it, and process it differently.
SPEAKER_03:The only asterisk I would add to what you just said is I think a lot of times couples have worked through these things, or at least to some degree that works.
SPEAKER_02:They have some level of understanding.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes, yes. And then add parenting. Yeah. I think we all have a pretty big regression in a in a can you regress in a good way, but like in a in a very I I mean that actually, like in a very understandable way, just because it's all brand new all over again. So these old things come back up, and we say, but you're supposed to know that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and it's also, I think, as we say about parenting all the time, like parenting is this beautiful, wonderful thing, but it is a massive transition for couples and it create introduces a level of um stress and transition that really diminishes a parent's capacity, yeah, an adult's capacity to be, you know, thoughtful and free and open and reflective. And that doesn't excuse that we shouldn't do that, but it does recognize it does introduce that it is more challenging. So oh, sure, right.
SPEAKER_03:Our stress increases, our capacity decreases at the exact same time. And wow, that's that's a tough one.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And so much of what we talk about with couples is trying to help them discover and learn how to have the capacity to think through and be aware of these really important stories that are informing their present relationships so that, like in the midst of all the stuff that's going on as parents, um, so that you can stay connected rather than that loss of capacity driving you apart.
SPEAKER_03:I think, I think what feels important to me about this is if you find that you feel these things in your relationship where it feels hard to assume your partner's best, or you feel so tired of having to assume your partner's best. Or like, you know, the only way we really can assume our partner's best is if generally they're trustworthy.
SPEAKER_02:Can you hang on just a second for that? Because so we made that statement that the reason we have to go over and over and over this with our kids is because these are just some of the hardest relational lessons to learn as human beings. And so wanted to kind of clarify like, okay, well, what what lessons are we talking about? And we'll be right back.
SPEAKER_03:Parenting can be exhausting, but your relationship doesn't have to stay stuck in conflict. And too tired to fight, we share our conflict to connection equation, a proven way to shift from the same old arguments into real connection, where you feel heard, resolve resentment, and repair after fights.
SPEAKER_02:It's available in print and audiobook. So even if you don't have time to sit down and read, you can still listen on the go. And for parents who want more hands-on help, we're opening just five coaching spots this month. These fill quickly, and every couple starts with a free 20-minute consultation. You'll find the link in the show notes.
SPEAKER_03:Too tired to fight because your relationship deserves more than survival mode.
SPEAKER_02:And now, back to the show. First of all, what is one of the lessons we have to understand is that loving relationships are not quid pro quo. And what I mean by that is a a relationship, a loving relationship is not I'll do this if you do that. I won't be mean to you if you won't be mean to me. Loving relationships are not conditional and they do not require your partner to earn your care, your curiosity, and your love. And I think that everyone fundamentally says, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want to have conditional, yeah. Like, you know, I just want to be accepting or, you know, I just whatever it might be. But when we are stressed and when we are overwhelmed, I think that this is something that partners lose sight of. And there can be a lot of, well, I've been doing this, what are you doing? Or, well, I did this, what are you gonna do for me next? And and I think that when we have that perspective, we can start going down a bad road. Like if we talk with our boys, it'd be like, well, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna um say that I did anything wrong unless they say that they did something wrong too. Like, yeah, that that doesn't work.
SPEAKER_03:I okay, so one, our kids would never say it that directly. And two, neither do couples. But I think that the question here, like the the thing I think that requires a lot of attention and some reflection, honestly, is but how do we say that? Because the way our kids say that is like I didn't, I didn't want to do that. Like, I didn't, I didn't like I'm gonna get up and go shove them, but they shove me first, or I was just protecting myself, I was just defending myself. I'm not gonna just like take that, whatever. I think couples do a version of this too, because I think what we're talking about here fundamentally is self-protection. That is what we're talking about. So I think, you know, like we talk about these practices and these principles. If you feel like you are regularly having to protect yourself, and again, we are not talking about unhealthy um relationships where there's any sort of abuse because in those that that is like a completely different category. This is where they are like you are, you know, trying to get to a good place. Um but you you are regularly feeling like, okay, like I can't be vulnerable, they're gonna shut me down, or like what's the point of being vulnerable? What's whatever?
SPEAKER_02:I'll be vulnerable when you're vulnerable. Like I, you know, or like I try to be vulnerable and you're not vulnerable back, so I'm not gonna be vulnerable anymore.
SPEAKER_03:Like these kinds of but also there's wisdom in some of those things.
SPEAKER_02:There is. That's why again, like there's a lot of nuance here. There is a lot of nuance here, but but I do think that one of the barriers that we run into with a lot of couples is this idea of well, I'm not gonna do that unless you do that. Now, let's go let's kind of keep going through because I think that this can help with the nuance.
SPEAKER_03:I get it.
SPEAKER_02:All right. So I think one of the other lessons that we need to understand about relationships that is hard to learn is that loving relationships do not assume the worst of their partner. You bump me, and I know you did it because you were trying to hurt me. Loving relationships trust that their partner's intentions are good, positive, and they ask questions to verify negative assumptions and meaning.
SPEAKER_03:This is my favorite of all the of all the lessons we're having here today, because I struggle with this one the most. When you hurt my feelings, which is again never on purpose. Do you think you've ever hurt my feelings on purpose?
SPEAKER_02:No, not that I'm aware of.
SPEAKER_03:I don't, yeah, I don't think you've ever hurt my feelings on purpose. But when you do, I immediately, my default in that stressed hurt place is to say, no, I will not be a person who gets my feelings hurt. I have a whole story that supports that. No, you hurt my feelings, that means you I shut you off. Right. Close. I don't think like, oh, you what I wonder what might have been happening for Stephen that would lead us here. Well that's my growth part.
SPEAKER_02:Or there's that place. So what you're talking about, let's just say that's an attack, that's an attachment moon, right? Correct. Oh, my feelings are hurt. There's the shut off. You assume like you did it on purpose.
SPEAKER_03:And then I don't even care if you did it on purpose. I'm my assumption is I will self-protect. I forget you. I don't I don't need to be curious at all, purposeful or not. Right. And doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_02:You get into that quid pro quo thing of like, well, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna move towards you, I'm not gonna be vulnerable with you, I'm I'm no, I'm not gonna be nice to you, whatever it is, because you didn't you made me feel this way.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you hurt my feelings. And but no part of me, and I think that this is why this matters. No part of me thinks quid pro quo, yeah, that doesn't register. So I think that a lot of us do this without realizing we do it because we don't say that.
SPEAKER_02:So so this is the question then. Exactly. How do you do this? How like how does this take place in your relationship? How do you set up a quid pro quo interaction with your partner? How do you assume your partner's worst in your relationship? Like how, like, because I mean we were talking about this, like these things are going to happen. It's it's you're not like, oh, you're such a terrible person because you have this quid quo quo interaction, or you're assuming your partner's worst. No, that this happens, just like it happens with our boys, right? But what do we ask them to do? We say, work to see it differently. Know that this is gonna happen, but you have to do some work to choose a different path, to um ask different questions, to have a different perception of your partner, to ask for a different kind of relationship. Like it's not like um you're a bad person because this happens, and it's just so easy not to do this. Right. It it is work. That's why you have to review this again and again and again, because it takes practice and it takes reminding.
SPEAKER_03:So and I think And it takes working a new um, because we have ruts, deep ruts. Our kids do, we do, all the couples we work with have deep ruts of it not going well. So our interpretation is right. We're right, we're right, we're right. We have to rework this so we have new ruts of like, oh, I assume your best. Hey, did you what was going on? Help me understand because I want to shut down and be like, oh no, no big deal. I don't need you. Um could there be a different interpretation here?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well, and I might think like the deep ruts are really we have deep wounds. We have deep attachment wounds that get activated. And when that happens, we get into that, as you're saying, that rut of protection. Right. And that can keep us disconnected from ourselves and from each other. And that's what we're really talking about here is like being aware of these patterns, being aware of these um ways of interacting. The only way you get out of the rut is to see how it's happening, to see when it's happening, and then to consciously be like, hey, I want to move out of this rut. So um, third and final, loving relationships are not void of compassion and empathy. I don't care about why something happened, I just care that it happened. Loving relationships don't excuse hurtful actions, but they do see how these actions have a larger context and realize we are imperfect and make mistakes. Just like it is not okay to walk by your brother and to bump into them on purpose.
SPEAKER_03:One of the most classic things that happens at our house is one of our kids will say, Yeah, I did shove them because they were coming at me and I thought they were gonna shove me. So like I just put my arms out to like to like keep them away.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_03:Huh.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But like like these, it's it's not an excuse. Empathy is not an excuse for hurt that, or you know, it isn't um uh get out of jail free card from responsibility and accountability. It is just the ability to imagine that there is more than one option, more than one side to a story, and to be open to saying, huh, you know what? I want to offer you that compassion. I want to offer you that validation and understanding because you know what? I want the same thing too. And if that's what we're doing for each other, things are gonna be a lot better.
SPEAKER_03:And again, the reason we struggle to do that, all of us, is because that is the most vulnerable thing. Sure. Because we have to tell somebody our feelings were hurt, which none of us want to do. None of us want to be that level of exposed, even to our safe, trusted partner. And then sometimes we're we don't feel that that trust anymore.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so I think it's that is that is a really big S.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that and so that kind of flows into the to the next Before you get into the next thing.
SPEAKER_03:I'm curious from you, from your perspective, from you, Steven, like with the more dismissive, avoidantly attached, how what's your version of how you self-protect in this? You know, like we talked about these lessons, but mine's the like, I don't think, oh, quid pro quo, I shut you off, but I do do that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think um I do I do all of those things as as well. I think the uh in that avoidant dismissive kind of pattern of regulating and dealing with stress and you know, kind of all of those things. It's just a withdrawing of in two ways of a withdrawing from myself and being aware of what's happening and be and being kind of losing awareness of what's happening.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, just being like, you know what, I'm not gonna, this isn't a big deal. Let's just move on, forget it. Like, it's not important. Like, however, I'm feeling about this, it's not important. Let's just let's just keep moving, or a withdrawing from you. And that's how I think how the quid pro quo can kind of go is like, well, if you're gonna be that way, then you know what? I'm gonna go over here and be distant from you. And and I think that that's one of the ways that that that happens. Um, and so for me, like if I if I'm choosing to do that or or recognizing that that's happening, I'm like, hmm, you know, and I don't really well, maybe I do because I am a little bit of a nerd. I might be like, huh, I think I'm in that quid pro quo uh place with with Aaron. Um so I I think so. If both partners are trying to be aware of these three things, these three lessons, uh, recognizing how does this, how does quid pro quo happen? How does um thinking the worst of my partner happen? How does me not offering them empathy happen? If both of you are trying to be aware of that, guess what? Hey, you're you're in a good zone to offer one another vulnerability and connection. But a lot of partners say, Well, I can't move towards my partner in this manner. I can't do that. And that's oftentimes where we get, you know, couples coming to us. They're like, Oh, I can't do it. That's nice, nice podcast. Hey, cute book uh where you give all these nice that, you know, but that doesn't work for us. And I think then what we are oftentimes talking with couples about is, well, you know what? What that indicates is a loss of trust. And I think loss of trust um is really connected to that idea of, well, it seems like there may be some attachment wounds that you are still that are unresolved, and you need to think through those because it is definitely impacting your ability to trust your partner. Or maybe you and your partner have some unresolved hurt, um, you know, which obviously many couples do, that you have not addressed with your partner so that you can stop withholding your trust from your partner.
SPEAKER_03:That one sentence you just said, I think is a whole podcast in and of itself. Because one, I don't think anyone, or at least not most people, are intentionally withholding trust.
SPEAKER_02:True. But it does happen.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, absolutely. No question. And then the other thing I think is all of us as parents have gone through stuff because the other thing about that is the unresolved hurts. I think usually implied when we think about couples um having unresolved hurts would be things that are intentional.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But the majority of the couples we work with and our own and our own is stuff that's happened to us. Job loss, financial stress, pregnancy loss, pregnancy, death of loved ones.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. You know, where we're like there this massive outside external thing, or little external COVID, you know, like happens to your relationship, and they stack up.
SPEAKER_03:And y'all are coping your way through.
SPEAKER_02:Well, well, if you think about it, those things stack up and it further diminishes your capacity. So what happens is when that capacity is further diminished, you have less of yourself to be aware of and to give to your partner, and it creates this big, big divide where again, circumstances outside of your control oftentimes are the thing that activate loss of trust in couple relationships.
SPEAKER_03:And if you think about those moments too, right? So like they can be massive things that happen. And we have had plenty of those in the last, you know, let's just call it a decade. I mean, as a people, not just Stephen and Aaron, but like humanity has had a lot happen. But also it's it's like um little things stack up to feel like real, not to feel little things when little things stack up, they are big things. And I look to my partner in those moments. I am I am losing capacity, I'm losing capacity. I need you. Right.
SPEAKER_02:And I look at you and you are losing capacity, losing capacity, saying I need you.
SPEAKER_03:But we don't see that. What we see is like, you're not with me. Yeah, that's what we see as partners. We look over and I'm not like, oh yes, well, Steven's lost capacity too. I'm like, you're not here for me. And you look at me and you're like, you're not there for me. And so we keep going and we're like, well, I get it. I understand why. But man, over time, I don't get it anymore. Yeah. And if you can't be here for me, what's the point?
SPEAKER_02:And and the way it gets translated with kind of our attachment, you know, the preoccupied or uh d dismissive attachments is you you're kind of like, you're not here for me. You are you are withdrawn, you are just going away. Wait, that's what Aaron's has to say. Yeah, yeah. You are leaving me. And that's what that is. Exactly what that's exactly what I'm doing. And then I have that sense of like, all you're doing is asking me to just do more and more and more and more so that you feel better. And I can't do that. Right. And and if you notice, man, those are really negative interpretations of one another, but They're also historical. But from an empathetic, compassionate way, you're like, I get how I can I get how that happens. No question. And then I get how you do get into that quid pro quo thing of like, well, you know what? When you stop withdrawing, then this will be better. Or I'm like, when you stop asking me to do more, this will be better. And and so I Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:I think that's the kindest way you could possibly say that. I think that for from you, especially in those really stressed moments, it's like a constant demand cycle.
SPEAKER_04:Sure.
SPEAKER_03:I'm not asking for like a little engagement. I'm pointing out every moment you have disengaged. Sure. It's a it is a constant demand cycle.
SPEAKER_02:So how does this happen in your couple relationship? How has your trust been impacted by whether it's your own attachment story or whether it's things that have happened to you and your partner in your relationship that have diminished your capacity for one another?
SPEAKER_03:I think sometimes in when we work with couples, um, this comes up, right? Um, but sometimes it's a big thing. This thing happened during pregnancy, you this, or you know, when my mom passed away, you that. Like there are these big, or when I lost my job, it was it became about you. Whatever. There are these like big moments that sometimes are the things that have to be worked, and sometimes it's it's stack up.
SPEAKER_02:It's yeah, it's just little things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But that mean big things.
SPEAKER_02:So you're trying to say like be aware of like it could be little, it could be big, it could be a combination.
SPEAKER_03:Is there like a before this and then an after this? And what was that? And is there a moment that needs some real work and healing?
SPEAKER_02:And so then you're like, okay, well, we've we're gonna think about it and we're gonna discover what it is. Like now, what do we do? Right. Well, I think like just with our boys, like what awareness is important, and then practice taking a different action is really important, and assessing how that process of practice is is going is really important. And so there's there's ways you can do that. Um, you can, I mean, to be quite honest, this is kind of stuff we help couples with. So um, you might need some coaching, you might need to sit down and you know, chat with someone like us. You might need to go to some real like formalized therapy and like work through some uh things. You might uh, you know, we have a book, too tired to fight, that I think can be useful. Um, there's there's ways to engage in this process.
SPEAKER_03:I think the one, two, three would be self-awareness. The best gift we can give ourselves, our partner, and our kids, which means our whole family, is self-awareness. That's the first. Second thing, learning your partner. If your partner's self-aware, they can educate you about themselves. You also have a pretty good idea, my guess is. Um, and then the third thing is that's where we find choice. So making the different choices in those moments where you have the opportunity to be like, I could self-protect and say, forget it. I will just proceed with this day without you, and you can be here and I'll be pleasant. But really, you're cut off to me. That's the Aaron response. Or to be like, hey, that kind of hurt. Was there am I missing something? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and so that's the collaboration part of doing something different. And to be quite honest, again, like that's what like we help couples collaborate. We have very specific assessments, quizzes, checklists, things that we walk couples through in terms of being able to say, like, okay, we understand, we have this self-awareness, okay, I understand you. Then what do we do? And and guiding couples through, like, this is what you do. Right. Um, and so you need something like that, you know. Doesn't have to be Aaron and Steven, but it but it does have to be it does have to be something.
SPEAKER_04:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so this is a moment to become self-aware and to take that first step in terms of how is our relationship honestly so very similar to how our kids interact with one another, and how would we actually talk to ourselves to get through the very same scenarios that we're trying to help our kids get through because it's not that different. Today's show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents. And remember, working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.